What's it like to attend an Intensive program?

[Adair M]

Skinny,

Exactly! I think I've heard Ryan say that for months, all Kimura would let him do was pull weeds in the pathways in his garden. It wasn't until Ryan proved that he could pull weeds to Kimura's satisfaction than he even let Ryan touch a tree.

 

[kakejiku]

Goes to show how a little Biblical knowledge can be taken out of context and screwed into the ground backwards. The Sons of Thunder were Jesus' disciples who Jesus sent forth in different parts of Israel ---once. He indowed them with his powers to heal and other things, like fishes and loaves. When they came back and discussed how things went several of them said that they wanted to call down judgement on those who did not listen to them. That's when Jesus called them the Sons of Thunder. If you can't put together the metaphore you are not trying.[/QUOTE

I thought you were referencing to specifically James and John...
And how they were vying to be placed as the head
Apostle over Peter.
Oh well, very easy to get confused over someone's
intentions in writing...

 

[Adair M]

I have noticed that the questions are getting more detailed on exactly what is taught. And that's ok, it's fun to talk about, it helps me remember, and it helps to reinforce the knowledge in my mind.

It is one of the reasons I post on forums like this. It helps me to really learn and know the information. Rather than just parroting it back, if I can explain it, it makes my brain really absorb it, and it becomes part of me.

I also found that when I teach the classes at Plant City when I return from the Intensives. Those classes "transform" me back to the mindset I had when I was at Boon's.

At the Intensives, Boon gives each student a BIB apron to wear and keep. BIB stands for Bay Island Bonsai. It's a bonsai club where Boon is the sensei, based in the Bay Area (San Francisco) of California. When I put that on, it reminds me to only use the highest quality techniques, to not accept sloppy shortcuts in my work, to do whatever I do in the most Professional manner possible. It psyches me up.

OK... sorry about that...

A lot of the detailed questions folks are asking are discussed in the classroom portion of the classes. Each Intensive, I return home with another set of handouts. I store them in a binder, along with my completion certificates. These handouts are building up to be a valuable reference resource. My binder is now two inches thick. I'm going to have to get a bigger binder!

I've taken some snapshots of a couple of pages. When my iphone gets them uploaded to where I can post them here, I'll share 'em.

 

[Dirty Nails]

In years that you want the tree to rest by not decandling do you just let the spring candles go until fall, cut them off and start again the following spring?

 

[markyscott]

In years that you want the tree to rest by not decandling do you just let the spring candles go until fall, cut them off and start again the following spring?

I guess I'd advise that you not decandle at all unless the tree is healthy and strong.

Don't decandle if:
- The tree put out weak growth (small needles without decandling) the previous year.
- You didn't fertilize heavily in the spring.
- The color is off

Decandling in the fall forces the tree to push buds on two year old needles and it misses a year if growth. It's stressful to the tree. If you're looking to give the tree a break, don't decandle at all.

Scott

 

[Adair M]

Skinny,

No, we let them stay on. We might pull some needles off them to balance the tree, but we leave the candle.

Cutting candles in the Fall is a valid technique to force back budding. It's not used very often.

What fall candle cutting does is it forces the tree to stimulate the adventitious buds that are at the base of the candle, and use those the following spring. The auxin drop also allows other back buds to be stimulated farther back on the branch. Also, some needle buds would be stimulated. (Maybe. You can never count on needle buds!)

Since the tree is using last summer's adventitious buds as it's spring buds, you can't decandle those. You've already used the adventitious buds! So, you have to wait until the year after to begin regular summer decandling.

It sets the tree back a year. Hopefully you'll get enough back buds closer to the trunk that it was worth it.

No, if the tree needs a year off, give it a year off.

I have a tree, a cascade, that I purchased this spring. In the past, it had been wired, and needles had been pulled (it was very sparse), but it didn't look it had ever been trained by decandling. All the needles had been cut in half to give the appearance of short needles.

I've given it a year off. I potted it up in Boon Mix, and I'm fertilizing and watering. It's responding great. Nice dark green growth. Boy, I was tempted to decandle. But I'm not. I'll pull some needles this fall and rewire. I think that maybe in two more years it will be small show worthy! Also, this is a cascade. Cascades are weaker than upright styles for JBP. We're forcing the tree to grow down when it wants to grow up!

Now, I need to find a cascade stand! (Always something!)

 

[Vance Wood]

I have noticed that the questions are getting more detailed on exactly what is taught. And that's ok, it's fun to talk about, it helps me remember, and it helps to reinforce the knowledge in my mind.

It is one of the reasons I post on forums like this. It helps me to really learn and know the information. Rather than just parroting it back, if I can explain it, it makes my brain really absorb it, and it becomes part of me.

I also found that when I teach the classes at Plant City when I return from the Intensives. Those classes "transform" me back to the mindset I had when I was at Boon's.

At the Intensives, Boon gives each student a BIB apron to wear and keep. BIB stands for Bay Island Bonsai. It's a bonsai club where Boon is the sensei, based in the Bay Area (San Francisco) of California. When I put that on, it reminds me to only use the highest quality techniques, to not accept sloppy shortcuts in my work, to do whatever I do in the most Professional manner possible. It psyches me up.

OK... sorry about that...

A lot of the detailed questions folks are asking are discussed in the classroom portion of the classes. Each Intensive, I return home with another set of handouts. I store them in a binder, along with my completion certificates. These handouts are building up to be a valuable reference resource. My binder is now two inches thick. I'm going to have to get a bigger binder!

I've taken some snapshots of a couple of pages. When my iphone gets them uploaded to where I can post them here, I'll share 'em.

I appreciate your courage for "putting it out there". Very brave of you, indeed.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

Now, I need to find a cascade stand! (Always something!)

 

[mcpesq817]

I think your both missing the point. A teacher in any profession would rather have a blank canvass to teach as opposed to having to undo bad habits. I think they are referring to novice students not experienced persons with vast knowledge of bonsai like yourselves. I don't know where it comes from but I sense a resentment towards Boone and his students. V I'm kind of surprised to hear you react in that way. Perhaps I hold your comments above some others on this site.

I agree with this as well. If you've been doing something a certain way for years, subconsciously you will revert to those habits. You have to consciously remember your teaching to counteract that subconscious impulse, so it's actually harder for the student than the teacher.

Anyone who started out golfing without professional instruction and later takes classes to correct their swing will tell you the same thing.

 

[mcpesq817]

I really don't know what causes all these arguments on this forum, maybe its being too sensitive, or poor communication, or huge egos getting in the way, but can we have a "Challenge" section where people with differences in technique can each post pictures of trees showing what they are talking about including finished, or as close to it as possible, trees. Then everyone can vote on what looks better to them and the argument can just end so it doesn't become the focal point of useful threads. That would be awesome as a beginner for so many reasons.

Yep, too many huge egos/insecure individuals around here that feel it necessary to spoil a really good thread. No disrespect to Vic, but the funny thing is that of all the things that are said about the SOBs, I feel the same could be said of the Dan Robinson folks who are equally as passionate about their instructor, style of instruction, and bonsai style.

Quick story - I took a repotting class with Boon through my club when I was starting out a few years ago. I came to the class with a pad of paper taking notes and hanging on every word Boon said, to make sure that I really got everything I could get out of the class. On the other hand, there was a club guy who had been doing bonsai for probably three decades or more who brought in I think a juniper - Boon looked at the tree and said it was not healthy and that it was because of the soil the tree was in. The guy argued with Boon about microclimates, west coast versus east coast, etc. etc. and left in a huff. I really couldn't believe it, as his tree really did not look all that healthy.

For whatever the reason, there are a lot of people in this hobby who think they know it all and don't try and learn from others with an open mind - whether it be in workshops, online, etc. It probably stems from a lot of deep-seated insecurity, but it really is disappointing and ruins it for the rest of us who are just trying to learn. The kicker is that these people's trees are nowhere near the same class of trees as those of Boon, etc.

 

[Adair M]

Boon won't work on a tree that isn't healthy.

 

[Adair M]

Often the first step is a proper repotting!

 

[Poink88]

Sorry, Dario! You're absolutely right! I don't mean a trident where all three twigs are based the same point! (Here is a perfect example of the weakness of my writing!)

No, I'm trying to describe a branch, maybe 4 inches long from the trunk. About 2 inches out, there's a right branch. The main line continues on ahead. Then about an inch later, there's a left branch. And then the terminal tip.

Go back and look at "Figure 15". Something like that is what I had in mind!

If it is #15, then that is fine, totally different scenario (from what I envisioned). Thanks!

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Yep, too many huge egos/insecure individuals around here that feel it necessary to spoil a really good thread. No disrespect to Vic, but the funny thing is that of all the things that are said about the SOBs, I feel the same could be said of the Dan Robinson folks who are equally as passionate about their instructor, style of instruction, and bonsai style.

For whatever the reason, there are a lot of people in this hobby who think they know it all and don't try and learn from others with an open mind - whether it be in workshops, online, etc. It probably stems from a lot of deep-seated insecurity, but it really is disappointing and ruins it for the rest of us who are just trying to learn. The kicker is that these people's trees are nowhere near the same class of trees as those of Boon, etc.

I feel no disrespect... In my early years with Daniel I doubtlessly sounded very much like you are commenting. Passionate, enthusiastic, and thoroughly protective. I'm still all of those things. I have come to realize I don't have a thing to prove.... because Daniel doesn't. Our relationship is more about mutual respect than anything... always has been. If someone doesn't love what we turn out, that's fine... someone else does. Even if it's just us.

Did you know there are no impressionist artists in the most famous art museum in the world?? The Louvre... full of classical beauty.... refused to accept any of that style of work. Eventually another museum was opened not far from there after impressionist work was refused... The works of Monet, Degas, Pissarro, Renoir and others, were judged not to be in the same class as the works the Louvre displayed.

My trees are in a different class... and I'm completely cool with that.

I mention this because when making broad generalities as you have, I'm not sure if you had stopped referring to me or no.

Kindly,

Victrinia

 

[Adair M]

Vic,

You are referring, no doubt, to the Orsay Museum. I've been there.

I think I mentioned earlier in this or the other thread, when Kimura burst on the bonsai scene, his work was hated by the bonsai establishment. He persevered, however, and now he is regarded as one of the greatest, if not THE greatest bonsai artists ever.



By the way folks, I just went out and watered my trees, including my JBP, for the second time today. I do not keep my JBP dry.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

I feel no disrespect... In my early years with Daniel I doubtlessly sounded very much like you are commenting. Passionate, enthusiastic, and thoroughly protective. I'm still all of those things. I have come to realize I don't have a thing to prove.... because Daniel doesn't. Our relationship is more about mutual respect than anything... always has been. If someone doesn't love what we turn out, that's fine... someone else does. Even if it's just us.

Did you know there are no impressionist artists in the most famous art museum in the world?? The Louvre... full of classical beauty.... refused to accept any of that style of work. Eventually another museum was opened not far from there after impressionist work was refused... The works of Monet, Degas, Pissarro, Renoir and others, were judged not to be in the same class as the works the Louvre displayed.

My trees are in a different class... and I'm completely cool with that.

I mention this because when making broad generalities as you have, I'm not sure if you had stopped referring to me or no.

Kindly,

Victrinia

Paris has separate museums for contemporary art, and at one time Impressionism was a contemporary art form. That's likely the reason why it never found it's way to the Louvre and instead is housed in Musee d'Orsay by way of Galerie nationale du Jeu de Paume which housed impressionist works prior to d'Orsay's opening in 1986.

So it's very likely that it has more to do with classification and specialization than snobbery.

To your point, it's safe to say you do not need to prove anything; your work is gorgeous.

 

[Adair M]

Skinny,

Back in the day, the Impressionists were rebels. And were prevented from being put in the Louvre.

 

[Skinnygoomba]

Are you guys referring to Salon? Salon was an exhibition held at the Louvre bi-annually until 1890. The Louvre's own website says that it moved it's impressionist works to d'Orsay when it opened. I believe a lot of those works were moved prior due to German occupation as well.

I'm now guilty of diverting from the topic at hand, I do apologise for that.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Indeed I may well be referring to Salon when it was held at the Louvre palace. It's the idea of the sentiment, more than anything. Judgements of what is worthy and what isn't is a matter of taste in any displayed/curated artform. Pieces that buck tradition are oftentimes relegated to the sides.

Now even I have my limits in that vein. you couldn't pay me to have to display a Picasso in my house, for all that Daniel has been called the Picasso of bonsai. too many graphic images of female bits for my taste.

lol,

V

 

[mcpesq817]

I feel no disrespect... In my early years with Daniel I doubtlessly sounded very much like you are commenting. Passionate, enthusiastic, and thoroughly protective. I'm still all of those things. I have come to realize I don't have a thing to prove.... because Daniel doesn't. Our relationship is more about mutual respect than anything... always has been. If someone doesn't love what we turn out, that's fine... someone else does. Even if it's just us.

Did you know there are no impressionist artists in the most famous art museum in the world?? The Louvre... full of classical beauty.... refused to accept any of that style of work. Eventually another museum was opened not far from there after impressionist work was refused... The works of Monet, Degas, Pissarro, Renoir and others, were judged not to be in the same class as the works the Louvre displayed.

My trees are in a different class... and I'm completely cool with that.

I mention this because when making broad generalities as you have, I'm not sure if you had stopped referring to me or no.

Kindly,

Victrinia

Oh, I wasn't referring to you in the last paragraph. I think we all know the people I was referring to