What's it like to attend an Intensive program?

lol

I actually don't... but leave me in my innocent ignorance please... I'll be happiest there. :o

Kindly,

Victrinia
 
Indeed I may well be referring to Salon when it was held at the Louvre palace. It's the idea of the sentiment, more than anything. Judgements of what is worthy and what isn't is a matter of taste in any displayed/curated artform. Pieces that buck tradition are oftentimes relegated to the sides.

Now even I have my limits in that vein. you couldn't pay me to have to display a Picasso in my house, for all that Daniel has been called the Picasso of bonsai. too many graphic images of female bits for my taste. :p

lol,

V

And without that strife there is no enthusiasm in the counterculture to create progressive change. The result of this process is a constant evolution of what is acceptable and mainstream.

I like mainly Asian art and block prints of old masters' sketches, but I do get a kick out of displaying a Picasso lithograph in my dining room, it's a litho of Le Reve.
 
Teeny tiny hijack of the innocuous type....

Well at least that one isn't a blatant va-jay-jay. lol I went to a show of a bunch of his work at the Seattle Art Museum.... I may be judging him too harshly... cuz I like Le Reve. I was mystified by what I saw... it was so violent and so obscene. But it was a lot of sketch work.... Thank you for introducing me to the piece.

Like you... my house is filled with Asian bronze, wood, rice paper, stone, and silk.... that's what rings my bell.
Kindly,

Victrinia
 
Oh, I wasn't referring to you in the last paragraph. I think we all know the people I was referring to :)

Miss Vic; he was referring to me-- I think. However the big difference between the gentleman he pointed out in Post # 190 and the sequence of events that happened to me is night and day. Mr.Post #190 went to a workshop with Boon and got what he asked for.

Me?--- I basically had the misfortune to have my home on the net (a series of videos that were requested) invaded and the entire thread hijacked by someone trying to shove Boon in my face to put it as kindly, and succinctly as possible.

If what happened to me had happened to anyone else on this forum, they would have been pressing that little complaint button at the bottom of the page and insisting that the offending individual were banned from the site. Now; there are people out there on this site that are blaming me for the disturbance because I did not present myself to be dry-humped by a superior, in their minds, and simply let it go.
 
Well maybe you're wrong my friend... one can hope.... about the reference comment that is. I'd like to remain ignorant as long as possible you know. :cool:

That last sentence made me laugh though. The visual imagery, along with the implication, was... well.... wildly ridiculous. Someone would not know you well if they thought that would ever be the case. No matter if it were over some theory about bonsai or otherwise. You doubt you'd stand still that long... or take things quietly.

Much love,

V
 
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Ok, I don't want to feed fuel to this fire, but I will give some experiences. To say Boon is the only teacher that can expound everything is silly. But some of his followers can be blindly fanatical and close minded as well.

On a previous post in the display section, there was a BIB member who posted a potential seki kazari for their event. I pointed out some potential principals taught in a display system called Gaddou that could be viewed as unharmonious or detract from the display. He got very defensive and I think finally came with a post that said BIB members study display every month and he was doing it this way because Boon had been to Kokufuu Ten etc. At that point I just quit posting, because it was pretty clear he did not think there was any other source or advice he should consider except Boon's.

Also, not all Japanese teacher-student relationships are like what you have heard from Japanese apprentices. My teacher for scrollmaking is about the same age. He is the manager of his family business. His father works on very important cultural art properties throughout Japan. He has never yelled at me, nor have I heard him yell at other students. If a mistake is made, he just sucks in his breath and kind of gives a hum. He also doesn't force you to do things a certain way. For example, I was prepping to remove the mimiori, which is the overlapping paper on the hem, and he watched me do it. His basic response is you can continue to do it your way and it works alright, but this is the way I do it. He left it to me to decide. I of course did it his way (because he wasn't a jerk about it and let me utilize my own agency). It is only later I realized why it would be done that way...But he did not tell me in words why.

I think good teachers impart knowledge by leading them down a set path, but great teachers allow their pupils to obtain wisdom through experience and trial by setting them on a path but letting them ultimately choose the course to the final destination.

Sorry for no bonsai specifics in this post.
 
As a student I am a why person. I want to know why I should do it that way. Once I understand the why then I will usually adapt that process more easily.
 
As a student I am a why person. I want to know why I should do it that way. Once I understand the why then I will usually adapt that process more easily.

I am exactly the same. Once I understand the why, it sticks on me...otherwise, it won't or maybe I subliminally refuse to accept it.

Lots of people who know me comment that I seem to know lots of stuff...truth be known I am very poor in memorizing but once I got the concept, I can recall it even 20 years later. Otherwise, I can't recall what I was taught the day before. Just how my brain works I guess.
 
As a student I am a why person. I want to know why I should do it that way. Once I understand the why then I will usually adapt that process more easily.

I am in total agreement. Sometimes though, when dealing with plants and things we know things happen,----- or--- we know we can do this and that will happen,---- but; we do not always know why. You have to be willing to accept the axiom as long as it can be proved to you that it works. Sometimes, you have to accept bonsai on the grounds of faith and continue to look for your own truth. That's what I have done with the Mugo Pine.
 
Miss Vic; he was referring to me-- I think. However the big difference between the gentleman he pointed out in Post # 190 and the sequence of events that happened to me is night and day. Mr.Post #190 went to a workshop with Boon and got what he asked for.

Me?--- I basically had the misfortune to have my home on the net (a series of videos that were requested) invaded and the entire thread hijacked by someone trying to shove Boon in my face to put it as kindly, and succinctly as possible.

If what happened to me had happened to anyone else on this forum, they would have been pressing that little complaint button at the bottom of the page and insisting that the offending individual were banned from the site. Now; there are people out there on this site that are blaming me for the disturbance because I did not present myself to be dry-humped by a superior, in their minds, and simply let it go.

Comes a time, you just have to let it go. You've both said your pieces (and then some), yet you continue to "dry hump" it to death. This is something I've seen you do over and over on this forum; once you get started you don't seem to know where the off switch is located. You may not care about my opinion, but I'm telling you it makes you look foolish, immature, petty...take your pick.

If there's one thing you should have learned after all these years, it's that you have no control over what gets posted once you start a thread. Let it go already.
 
There are lots of ways to teach effectively. Not every student responds well to every teacher.

I can see how some may not enjoy learning from Boon. That doesn't mean that WHAT Boon teaches is wrong, just how he presents it may rub some people the wrong way. Others thrive in the same environment.

Boon is very straightforward. If he sees you do good work, he tells you it is good work. If he sees sloppy work, he tells you it is sloppy work, and makes you redo it.

If being treated in this manner offends you, don't go.


My take is that yes, you can let the student try stuff, and make mistakes, and suggest alternate methods, etc., but that would take longer. I mean, doing the "softer, kinder method" that kakejiku suggested. There's merit in that approach. But, we're working with trees here, and if a student messes one up, well, it's not the same as ruining a piece of paper, or stick of wood that can be easily replaced. And there's the matter of time. There's so much to learn, so little time. Boon is trying to convey as much information as possible in the fastest way possible that the student is able to absorb. It IS much like trying to drink from the end of the firehose. I know I miss much of what Boon is teaching the first time I hear it. Which is why we do each class three times. I hear (and learn) something new each time.
 
As a student I am a why person. I want to know why I should do it that way. Once I understand the why then I will usually adapt that process more easily.

This is why I enjoy Ryan Neal as a teacher. He always makes sure his students understand not only the art and techniques, but also the scientific and mechanical principles of bonsai.
 
This is why I enjoy Ryan Neal as a teacher. He always makes sure his students understand not only the art and techniques, but also the scientific and mechanical principles of bonsai.

I agree. I haven't met Ryan but that is what my impression is based on posted videos of him. If I am to get some training of choice, it will probably be with Ryan (no offense to Boon).
 
I wish someone who has been to Ryan's would do a thread similar to this one.

Hopefully, there would be less confrontation, but I'd love to hear about his class series.
 
Let's take this thread for what it was intended- Adair is excited about what he learned... and unlearned... in the course of his education with Boon. He wanted to share this with us. I, for one, am grateful. There has been a lot of good info presented, and I compiled it on a word doc and printed it for future reference. I didn't get from this that he thinks Boon is the One True God of Bonsai. I believe he is open to all teachings of bonsai, and takes from each master what he can use in his own practice, as do we all.

Somehow these valuable threads always go off course into the Bermuda Triangle of Bonsai Nut. The OP's message gets sucked into a vortex and lands on the shores of Atlantis, never to be seen again. It's not going to stop, obviously, but I urge everyone to step back and look at the forest instead of the pile of bear shit you just stepped in.
 
Thanks Adair for all of your time and effort to share.

I've often thought that a club with a good sensei would be preferable in many ways to the common board/committee club structure, for the reasons you've shared. Every club I've been part of gets tangled up in politics and personalities and usually bonsai is a distant third. Our current club leadership is navigating it well, but it's not without challenges and the feeling of being stuck in second gear.
 
This is why I enjoy Ryan Neal as a teacher. He always makes sure his students understand not only the art and techniques, but also the scientific and mechanical principles of bonsai.

Totally agree Paul. Ryan's very technical and thorough in anything he's discussing. We spend 9-12 every morning doing lectures. ANd he's more than willing to spend the time going over the concept as long as needed to fully understand what he's teaching. I love Adair's analogy, "it's like trying to drink from the end of a firehose"! LOL

Have the day off. So I'll be finishing up transcribing his latest lectures onto my macbook. This too is a great way to reinforce what you've learned.
 
There's merit in that approach. But, we're working with trees here, and if a student messes one up, well, it's not the same as ruining a piece of paper, or stick of wood that can be easily replaced. And there's the matter of time. There's so much to learn, so little time.

Would you like to rethink your point that replacing a paper is a simple process? Have you ever replaced a Jikubou?
If I wrote, "We are working with expensive fine art so if a student messes a painting up, well, it's not the same as ruining a repot or hacking off any old branch," how would you perceive my feelings toward bonsai? You would probably not view me favorably.
 
This is why I enjoy Ryan Neal as a teacher. He always makes sure his students understand not only the art and techniques, but also the scientific and mechanical principles of bonsai.
I think it's because some of us are engineers... I, for one need to understand why I do something to a tree before I do it.

BTW, does anybody know good book on plant horticulture that show how trees work?
 
Please accept my apologies, kakejiku, I'm am totally ignorant about your art. And I in no way meant to demean it.

I guess I was thinking it was more of a wood working art, where a ruined piece could be replaced with another. So please accept my apology. I'm clueless!

(Now I've gone and made the wood workers mad!)

And before I get flamed, I admit, I'm totally ignorant about fine woodworking, too!
 
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