Why I am always pushing for a hard chop (tree collection).

[Poink88]

Please know that I am not bashing you, but speaking to you after seeing you slowly diminish your credibility by making statements based on very little bonsai background that most have learned to be just not true.

BTW, I kinda chuckled at this, I didn't know I have one. LOL

I am used to it...but honestly as rockm said...is it going to be like this every time I post? (or something to that effect). We endure or try to until we can take no more.

 

[Beng]

Your posts are popular that's for sure!

 

[october]

As mentioned...depends on who you ask. There are really big bonsai name who doesn't believe it is needed.


I use my own mix and so far I believe it is working well. It is a mix of honey, beeswax, and cooking oil.

I'd use wood glue in a pinch over nothing.

Just a word of caution here... When you use honey or anything like it. You might be inviting bad insects, specifically ants. When the ants come, they bring problems. Ants carry scale eggs. Once scale moves in, they tend to stay. You can wipe them out every season. However, it might become a constant every season problem.

Rob

**edit** Beng is correct. I didn't see Beng's reply before I posted mine. I would have not have posted this.

 

[jkd2572]

I use the gray stuff from Japan. Does not make a mess and falls off by the time the work is done. I have bought trees with all sorts of crap on them. It pisses me off to get a tree with some sort of 30 year life mixture on them. I usually have to cut it off and start the process all over again. And why would anyone make or use a bright orange cut paste?

 

[A Random User]

I use the gray stuff from Japan. Does not make a mess and falls off by the time the work is done. I have bought trees with all sorts of crap on them. It pisses me off to get a tree with some sort of 30 year life mixture on them. I usually have to cut it off and start the process all over again. And why would anyone make or use a bright orange cut paste?

This is funny...

There is an individual around my neck of the woods,
who makes his own cut paste and swears by it...
I said, fine...
But, if you are making it yourself... couldn't you of picked a color
that wasn't Blue ???

 

[Paulpash]

That was my experience. I find that making a surgical cut all the way around the scar so that a good ring of green shows and making the scar area as smooth as possible, even so far as sanding, will heal the scar just as fast and not lose a year in removing the offending branch.

Al, is this known as cleaning up the wound? So a ring of green cambium (I'm guessing probably an eighth of an inch?) nicked out using a small chisel or scalpel at the base of the callus all the way round? Should this be done several times over the growing season? Do you have any pics? The Al Keppler stick was class by the way. Coffee snorting is neither classy nor recommended.

Back to the thread. Acer palmatum (especially the red varieties such as deshojo or seigen) are much more likely to die back than most other deciduous species. I have an acer grove of 10 different types that I use to air layer off. I've removed the stems at varying points in the season and done over 30 air layers over the years. My estimate is that in about 40 - 50 percent of separations there is die back. If you cut close to your intended leader it could easily be girdled by die back and you'd be set back several years growing another one. This is just not worth the risk for one year's extra healing.

In hedging plants the propensity for die back seems much less but again you need to know your species. Chopping a beech back to a single bud leader is very risky. If it gets damaged or does not push the whole branch WILL fail. Chopping therefore is about calculated risk and knowing your species to a certain extent. You've been fortunate not to have experienced a negative reaction thus far but it only takes one to learn a lesson....

 

[Poink88]

Just to stay factual, I am making 2 corrections.

My success rate is not 95% as I originally thought, it is only 89.6%. Learned this after I updated my worksheet (to track success rate). There is a time after leafing here (Feb 2012) that almost all my collected trees (that week) died. Out of 67 I collected, 60 survived & 7 died but as most alluded to, some may still die so the percentage is expected to go down.

I repeat that pick-up trees (dug or unearth by others) are not counted as collected.

I also experienced die back once on my collected Azalea (sorry I forgot about that). Interesting to note that it only happened on the longest trunk (probably 18" at the time). It is a big azalea and being known for die back, I was actually expecting worse being collected mid-summer on a 106*F day. Thankfully it performed much better. I was honestly surprised (and glad) it survived!

Thank you.

 

[BigDave]

There is a time after leafing here (Feb 2012) that almost all my collected trees (that week) died. Out of 67 I collected, 60 survived & 7 died

I'm sorry for your loss, Rest in peace...urbanpotentsaidori

 

[TheSteve]

I think what people are trying to say is you're claiming success before it's over. You're not really even to half time. I've got some quince shoots I cut off before bud break that are laying on the ground with leaves opening. they were cut three weeks ago. Can I claim I've successfully kept them alive? At this point many of your trees are probably going to make it but they're not out of the woods yet. Never underestimate the amount of energy stored in an old trunk. They can go for a while on it.

 

[Poink88]

I think what people are trying to say is you're claiming success before it's over. You're not really even to half time. I've got some quince shoots I cut off before bud break that are laying on the ground with leaves opening. they were cut three weeks ago. Can I claim I've successfully kept them alive? At this point many of your trees are probably going to make it but they're not out of the woods yet. Never underestimate the amount of energy stored in an old trunk. They can go for a while on it.

I know but please note that only 4 trees are collected this year (2 are not counted on my original tally yet) and the other 2 are growing fine. The rest were all collected last year and all of the deciduous trees already sprouted. All the (broad leaf) evergreens are also pushing tons of new growth. I am new to bonsai but not to plants and can kinda differentiate weak stored energy growth vs healthy/vigorous ones.

The few trees that were "sputtering" last year are now throwing shoots everywhere!

Pic of (one of) the newly collected tree's root bottom after chopping this weekend...
View attachment 33091