Some facts about bonsai soil

[Anthony]

Well there is a situation with Pumice to look at.

Is it an imperfect volcanic glass?
If it is, it will continue to dissolve / degrade ?

A lava boil, will just freeze as the temperature goes down, and harden.

In that case you want the pumice from the sea shore, resistant to chemical decay.

And how will that type handle root pressure [ how hard/durable is it ?]

So do we go off to New Zealand to see our friend ?
Apologies @sorce, I couldn't rhyme it.
Good Day
Anthony

* We have perlite for the high silica content for making glazes for pottery.
Too soft for bonsai and long term growing [ root core ]

 

[Anthony]

No @ Sorce,

not cone 10, radioactive, so it is a bit higher

Say 10 Mothra eye blasts and a wing/body electric for good measure.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Smoke]

My daughter made some clay from the soil around here. It's pretty red. I'll see if I can find it. We make a lot of bricks from Georgia Red clay. Used for baseball diamonds, too.

Not your native clay, your akadama. We are not talking about native soil, you are talking about native soil. You say your akadama is red, I say it isn't as red as you think it is. The pot I made is not fired. It is just air dried akadama pressed into a pot shape and has held that shape now for over a year. Akadama right out of the bag. I was not interested in color so much as its ability to have clay like properties, which was the reason for the pot, which has been shown in a previous post at least a year ago.

In other words, I would like to compare apples and apples for a change.

 

[Adair M]

Not your native clay, your akadama. We are not talking about native soil, you are talking about native soil. You say your akadama is red, I say it isn't as red as you think it is. The pot I made is not fired. It is just air dried akadama pressed into a pot shape and has held that shape now for over a year. Akadama right out of the bag. I was not interested in color so much as its ability to have clay like properties, which was the reason for the pot, which has been shown in a previous post at least a year ago.

In other words, I would like to compare apples and apples for a change.

Gotcha. Sorry, I misunderstood.

I'm going to be really busy over the next couple weeks doing proper bonsai things: teaching two workshops this weekend, the Atlanta Show is the following weekend, then teaching more workshops the weekend after that.

Not to mention repotting my other trees...

If I have any akadama left over, I might give it a go. I do have Double Red Line.

 

[M. Frary]

not cone 10, radioactive, so it is a bit higher

Correct. Godzilla snot comes out at cone 10!

 

[JoeR]

My question is why everyone adds lava to their soil? What positive properties does it have other than appearance?


Noone ever talks about how awesome it is, yet it is even in Boons mix? What is it good for?


This year I skipped the lava and used 1-2 parts pumice to 1 part akadama depending on the tree. Quite a few actually went into pure aka.

 

[Adair M]

Pumice is great stuff, but it's very light weight. Lava is a bit heavier so it can add stability to the soil. The lava I use has a round or egg shaped particle, and it's also got a lot of texture, both of which keep the soil open.

For those who have difficulty finding akadama, a 50/50 mix of pumice and lava works well. Adding a layer of chopped orchid moss on top helps with water retention.

 

[markyscott]

My question is why everyone adds lava to their soil? What positive properties does it have other than appearance?


Noone ever talks about how awesome it is, yet it is even in Boons mix? What is it good for?


This year I skipped the lava and used 1-2 parts pumice to 1 part akadama depending on the tree. Quite a few actually went into pure aka.

"Lava rock" is what we geologists call "scoria". Scoria is distinguished from pumice by one characteristic- scoria is denser than water, pumice is less dense. That fact alone makes it helpful - it won't float away when you water.

So why is it dark (it is often, but not always, red to black in color)? Well that's because its often associated with mafic volcanoes and has a fair amount of iron and magnesium. It's less viscous, so the bubbles that form the holes are more often connected, meaning that they are open to water. Pumice holes are isolated, meaning they can't fill with water as much - that's why it's less dense than water and can form pumice islands floating on the ocean. There are no scoria islands - it'll sink to the bottom. So pumice and scoria have different water retention characteristics.

Michael Hagedorn believes scoria is harder and more damaging to your tools. He doesn't use it, apparently. I have no knowledge about this.

In the end, it's importance is questionable and the differences in physical properties are slight. I like it because it doesn't float away when I water, but I believe it makes for a bit more water retentive mix when you use it. Probably the most important issues are price, availability, and appearance.

Scott

 

[Dav4]

It's also about 50% less expensive then akadama here on the east coast, perhaps what pumice would cost, but it's also earth colored and mixes better color wise...my 0.02.

 

[JoeR]

It's also about 50% less expensive then akadama here on the east coast, perhaps what pumice would cost, but it's also earth colored and mixes better color wise...my 0.02.

 

[Adair M]

"Lava rock" is what we geologists call "scoria".

I believe it makes for a bit more water retentive mix when you use it.

Scott

Ah ha! That explains it!

Last week, at the Redneck Study Group in Charlotte, we did a lot of repotting. We had a variety of souls and sizes to use. When Boon called for a "Drainage Layer" of course soil, he preferred coarse pumice over coarse lava (scoria).

When we ran out of coarse pumice, we used the coarse lava, but it was clear that Boon preferred the pumice over the lava for that purpose.

Now I know why, it's less water retentive, which makes perfect sense for a drainage layer!

Thanks, Scott! Your post was very helpful!

 

[M. Frary]

Now I know why, it's less water retentive, which makes perfect sense for a drainage layer!

Why didn't you just ask Boon why?

 

[Smoke]

Adair is more interested in taking the slower scenic route to bonsai.

 

[fredman]

Markyscott. Does pumice that was created from an under water volcano, differ in any way from the above ground ones ?

 

[M. Frary]

Adair is more interested in taking the slower scenic route to bonsai.

But I thought that what teachers were for.
It seems like Adair shouldn't have to ask though.
Shouldn't soil components and their uses be covered right away at a bonsai intensive?

 

[Adair M]

Mike, your question is a perfectly reasonable one. I'm sure if I'd asked he would have said something. But when you're there, actively engaged in process, you don't ask questions, you just "do".

So, you've prepared the rootball, the pot is prepped with screen and wire, and Boon says, "Ok, put in the drainage layer". You might ask, "You want pumice or lava?" Or, just know that he wants pumice and not ask. You don't think to ask, "Boon why fo you want pumice for a drainage layer instead of pumice?"

And even if you did, the answer you get might be something like, "Pumice better".

If you ask "Why?", he might get annoyed at you. Especially, when he's busy trying to pot the tree.

Now, if you think to ask in a less stressful setting, he might give you a fuller answer. (I don't know, never asked).

But, I'm sure both would work. Pumice might work better than lava. For the most part, I don't question Boon. I'm there to learn his techniques. Not question them. I don't know if he knows all the scientific stuff that Markyscott said where the differences between pumice and lava. But he knows "pumice better". And, in the end, that's what I need to know, too.

 

[coh]

I'm sure things get hectic during the intensives, but if I'm paying that amount of money (travel costs plus the intensive fee), I would hope the instructor wouldn't get annoyed if I asked "why?" Somewhere down the line, maybe I (or you) don't have that pumice for the drainage layer, so how do you decide what to use instead? Helps to know why things are done.

 

[M. Frary]

If you ask "Why?", he might get annoyed at you.

You guys are paying him good money and you're scared to ask a question?
Isn't that what you and he are both there for?

 

[Adair M]

Adair is more interested in taking the slower scenic route to bonsai.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, Al. Doesn't matter.

Quite frankly, I don't really need to know all the science that Markyscott knows to make good bonsai soils. For me, I just want to know what works. There's a lot of discussion about caton exchange rates, and water tables, and stuff. If you feel you need to know all that to grow bonsai, then study that stuff.

Me, I'm perfectly happy with use "xyz Mix", water well at noon every day, and fertilize on a schedule.

I mean Osoyoung knows all the names of all the hormones and how they interact, but I don't think I've ever seen a picture of one of his bonsai.

I study with Boon because he produces bonsai I like, and does so consistently and he has a very good history of keeping them healthy.

So if he says, "pumice better", that's good enough for me. I'll let you scientists do the lab work. I'd rather enjoy the scenic bonsai!

 

[Adair M]

You guys are paying him good money and you're scared to ask a question?
Isn't that what you and he are both there for?

No, not at all. You and coh asked the same question.

My poor writing skills!

First of all, I didn't ask, "Why?", because I really don't care "why". I'm more focused on the "what?" As in "what to do".

Now, when I read Markyscott's explanation, I put 2 and 2 together... But really, I hadn't really thought about it. At the Intensives, so much information comes at you, it takes all your effort (at least mine) to try to remember everything.

So when we're repotting, and he has a bucket of drainage pumice, regular sized bonsai soil, and a bucket of smaller sized bonsai soil and he says to put in a drainage layer I do it. I don't ask, "Gee, Boon, I see here we're using pumice. Why pumice? Couldn't we use marbles instead?" Sorry, maybe I'm just too stupid. My focus is on learning what Boon does. My take away is to use pumice. M

Now, it just so happened last weekend, that we ran out of pumice. And Boon substituted lava. I think his words were, "We're out of pumice? We'll have to use lava, then".

So from that I inferred he preferred pumice to lava for the drainage layer.

If you guys want to go take Boon's classes to all your questions answered, feel free.

As to "annoying Boon". Yes, some students annoy him when they question everything he does, and insist his techniques won't work where they live, or if he tells someone to do something a certain way, and they do it differently because "that's the way they've always been taught", etc.

I go to Boon's to learn his techniques. How to do what he does.

I figure out "why" his techniques work on my own. Kinda like the epifany I had tonight with Markyscott's post.