Somewhat New To Bonsai

[MaxTheSpy]

When I moved into my dads house almost 4 years ago he gave me a bonsai for my birthday, Ive been doing my best to keep care of it and make sure its happy and growing the right way. Though he said this type of tree was very easy to take care of and pretty hard to kill. The next year my grandpa gave my dad a bonsai that my grandpa has had since he was 18. And eventually my dad would give me that one if its still alive and the one his dad got him when my dad was 18.

Im now 19 and need to choose a tree of my own to pass down to my kids when I have them. Ive always been a huge fan of the Bristlecone Pine tree, Huge ancient trees in california. I found one, about 10 inches tall the only one in the area for sale and was wondering if this would be a good tree to try and keep in the Portland Northwest area. I heard that they like dry climates though didnt need them to thrive. Though I cant find much about them in the northwest let alone in bonsai form.

If you know anything please let me know. Im going to look at it again today.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Welcome!

It sounds like this tree is tiny. If that's true, you might want to pass. Pines are sloooow growers, and you'd need to plant it in the ground to get any sort of girth on it.

I wouldn't go pine for your first tree. Something like a juniper or Ficus would work well to help you learn.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Wow, your Dad and Grandfather both have trees they have had since they were teenagers? What the hell you asking a bunch of know nothings like us about Bonsai, you have 2 very experienced relatives to bend their ears. Damn, wish I had someone in the family pass down a tree or two to me. Seriously, tap their knowledge as much as you can.

You are in the Portland area. All kinds of trees grow very well there, too many to list. Take a walk in the mountains and collect a few. Best way to get a tree that looks like it is a century old in a pot is to start with one that is already 2 centuries old. Get out there and collect while you are young and healthy enough to do some ridge walking and mountain hiking.

Bristlecone pines have a mystique, and the very few older examples in cultivation have made good bonsai - but it has a HUGE downside. It is so slow growing, you will need 50 years to get the growth you would get in 10 years from a Limber pine or most other pine species. Bristlecone only has a single flush of growth, and that flush is of short duration. They often go years without adding any growth at all. They prefer an alkaline soil, add crushed oyster shell or crushed limestone to your potting mix, which should be pretty much all inorganic. They are tricky to keep healthy. They need intense, full sun, like you get above 10,000 feet, cloudy Portland will result in soft growth that is more fungus prone than most pines. They hold old needles for as much as 30 years, and if you remove needles before they naturally drop, you stress the tree. So they always have a dense foxtail look. Really a tough species to do well. Well worth the effort, especially if you collect one with the first 50 years of growing out of the way. Most of their native range is protected, so finding a legal area to collect bristlecone is tricky. BML land is usually easy to get a collecting permit, less than what ever number their limit is, for personal home landscaping use, is what you ask for when obtaining a permit. I think the limit is 10 plants. Ask at local BLM office. Similar for State Forest. Each office will tell you what areas you can collect in. But if you are only after Bristlecone, you will be above 10,000 feet for much of your hunt.

Look at your local state DNR for a list of pines native to your area and your elevation. Shore pine and Lodgepole pine make excellent bonsai, and I think one or the other is local to your area. They will grow fast enough you can actually train it for bonsai. Ponderosa pine, Limber pine and Southwestern white pine all make good bonsai and are much easier to handle than Bristlecone pine. Limber pines live for 500 to 1000+ years, so only a quarter the age of a Bristlecone, but so much easier to handle. In Portland area, Japanese white pines do reasonably well, a very traditional bonsai pine. You might be on the cool side in summer for Japanese Black Pine, but Michael Hagedorn who is in the Portland area certainly does a good job with JBP.. The possibilities in your area are near limitless in terms of easier to grow pines.

And if you want to branch out, there are several spruces native to your area, Engleman Spruce make excellent bonsai. Mountain hemlock is another possibility, but Mountain Hemlock will not do well away from the Pacific Northwest, so if you think your kid might move to some other part of the country, Mountain hemlock might not be the best choice. Firs also make good bonsai, sub-alpine fir has some of the draw backs of Bristlecone, in that it is slow growing, in addition it does not tolerate warmth, especially at night. Needs to have temperature drop sharply at night, like it does in the sub alpine areas it is native to. But other firs work. And in Portland area Coast Redwood is always an option. They make good bonsai.

So lots of choices for your legacy tree. If you really want to stick with Bristlecone pine, go for it, but be warned, they are problem trees. They are great, when done well, but are a bitch to do well. Start a Lodgepole or Shore pine, along with your Bristlecone. If the Bristlecone dies on you, the other can be your spare that you started as a teenager, to pass on.

Actually start 5 or 10 pines, one or two of each of your local species, start them all before you turn 20. All bonsai hobby growers have a certain amount of mortality. If you start 10 now, chances are better you will have one still alive when you turn 45 and your kid turns 18. We all have made mistakes and killed a few trees, it is a steep learning curve, best to have a few spares on hand in case you kill one or two. Lord knows I've killed too many to count over my 40+ years of doing bonsai.

Good luck and show us photos of the tree you Dad gave you.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Douglas Fir - I neglected to mention Douglas Fir, They are proving to be pretty good as a bonsai species. An recent forestry articles suggest they live nearly as long, and might possibly get as big in nature as the Coast Redwoods. Definitely add Douglas Fir to your list of possible legacy trees. They are iconic trees of the Northwest.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

Seems like Bonsias in my family are pretty tricky, I talked to my grandpa today and he said that hes never herd of someone using this particular species as a bonsai though If I could do it right It would be a great tree. I also went to the nursery where an awesome bonsai guy works. I took the tree my dad gave to me and told him How I wanted it to look and asked him to show me the way of proper pruning.

To my surprise he said no problem and took me out back and pruned the tree and made it look awesome. As it sits this tree is only 4 years old and we had to cut off 2 of the three major branches at the bottom to give it the look I wanted. I really hope it recovers, the new energy should go to the other side and fill it out a little more.

I had to take it out of the pot and put it in a plastic one for a season so it would grow a little bigger faster. Though Today I bought another pot for it that looks wayy better than the plastic one I was using before.

This is the tree my dad gave me when I moved in. I took a picture this morning. Ill try and take a picture of the one my grandpa gave my dad tomorrow in the sunlight.

I also found out that until it gets the way I like it I should not let it flower, so the energy can be sent elsewhere. Im also going to take a couple of the shoots from the pot and plant them in a mini pot and give it to my girlfriend to take care of and grow so she can learn with me too. Let me know what you think I should do with this one.

 

[Potawatomi13]

When I moved into my dads house almost 4 years ago he gave me a bonsai for my birthday, Ive been doing my best to keep care of it and make sure its happy and growing the right way. Though he said this type of tree was very easy to take care of and pretty hard to kill. The next year my grandpa gave my dad a bonsai that my grandpa has had since he was 18. And eventually my dad would give me that one if its still alive and the one his dad got him when my dad was 18.

Im now 19 and need to choose a tree of my own to pass down to my kids when I have them. Ive always been a huge fan of the Bristlecone Pine tree, Huge ancient trees in california. I found one, about 10 inches tall the only one in the area for sale and was wondering if this would be a good tree to try and keep in the Portland Northwest area. I heard that they like dry climates though didnt need them to thrive. Though I cant find much about them in the northwest let alone in bonsai form.

If you know anything please let me know. Im going to look at it again today.

Most interesting family tradition you have. Call first and make informal visit to Ryan Neil at Bonsai Mirai about 25 miles W of Portland and Michael Hagedorn in Milwaukee. Very nice respectful and easy to talk to. There are other Masters in Portland area also all excellent teachers. Ryan grew up around these trees so him #1 to talk to. Very fortunate you are to be in that area for Bonsai. I have one for over 20 years now and many in landscaping in NW. Would be excellent tree for long term project. Also check in with Portland Bonsai Society and might see these folks there as well.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

Most interesting family tradition you have. Call first and make informal visit to Ryan Neil at Bonsai Mirai about 25 miles W of Portland and Michael Hagedorn in Milwaukee. Very nice respectful and easy to talk to. There are other Masters in Portland area also all excellent teachers. Ryan grew up around these trees so him #1 to talk to. Very fortunate you are to be in that area for Bonsai. I have one for over 20 years now and many in landscaping in NW. Would be excellent tree for long term project. Also check in with Portland Bonsai Society and might see these folks there as well.

I talked to one or two people in the portland area but both wanted about 75 bucks an hour or around 300 per day. For that price Ill buy some tools and books and learn it myself. Though I would love to have a teacher or someone that I can talk to and ask questions to. I will probably try and build a friendship with the guy who helped me prune the tree posted above. He was very nice and seemed to know a whole lot about the specific tree I had.

 

[sorce]

Welcome to Crazy!

Sorce

 

[It's Kev]

I talked to one or two people in the portland area but both wanted about 75 bucks an hour or around 300 per day. For that price Ill buy some tools and books and learn it myself. Though I would love to have a teacher or someone that I can talk to and ask questions to. I will probably try and build a friendship with the guy who helped me prune the tree posted above. He was very nice and seemed to know a whole lot about the specific tree I had.

I agree with everyone else, get something that grows faster and that are easier to take care of. And let that keep you busy. But I would also like to add, since pines grow slowly, go get one. And then, just let it sit there and get older. Later on when you're more experienced, you can start shaping your pine which will already be old/ big enough to work with.

 

[ArtistWolf]

Interesting thread, great conversation and advice to read here.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

I agree with everyone else, get something that grows faster and that are easier to take care of. And let that keep you busy. But I would also like to add, since pines grow slowly, go get one. And then, just let it sit there and get older. Later on when you're more experienced, you can start shaping your pine which will already be old/ big enough to work with.

The above picture is of the tree I'm working on now that My dad gave me when I moved into his house. The Bristlecone Pine I will be starting this season will be long term and probably the slowest growing tree that I own. I really like the shape of the tree my dad gave me, I cut off one of the main shoots from the bottom so it would take the right shape but half of its not looking so well but I do see some little new shoots trying to start up on it so I'm going to give it some fertilizer and hopefully it fully recovers.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

Douglas Fir - I neglected to mention Douglas Fir, They are proving to be pretty good as a bonsai species. An recent forestry articles suggest they live nearly as long, and might possibly get as big in nature as the Coast Redwoods. Definitely add Douglas Fir to your list of possible legacy trees. They are iconic trees of the Northwest.

I didn't even see this, I think my dad has one of these he started a few years ago, be bought it when it was like 4 inches tall and has been working with it the last few years. Ill see if I can get one myself and start that one as well. thanks for the suggestion.

As of recently I also have fallen in love with the Bonsai Forrest look so I might give that a go for a long living cluster. This is what Im shooting for

 

[ConorDash]

I didn't even see this, I think my dad has one of these he started a few years ago, be bought it when it was like 4 inches tall and has been working with it the last few years. Ill see if I can get one myself and start that one as well. thanks for the suggestion.

As of recently I also have fallen in love with the Bonsai Forrest look so I might give that a go for a long living cluster. This is what Im shooting for

You aren't modest with your goals are you lol

 

[MaxTheSpy]

These are my trees I'm working on. The droopy one needs some pruning and some levels put on the main droop. The red pot one is wired and waiting for some more sunshine and the other in the black pot I just cut half of it off yesterday and needs some recovering.

Think this is a good start so far.

 

[ConorDash]

Those images do not show up by the way. May want to upload from different source or perhaps reupload and try again. Not sure how you attached them, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

I believe this is usually caused when uploaded to external site, linked in your post then the link is broken or the image is deleted from external site.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

Thats weird that they didnt show up, I can see them Ok. Ill try them a different way.

These are my trees I'm working on. The droopy one needs some pruning and some levels put on the main droop. The red pot one is wired and waiting for some more sunshine and the other in the black pot I just cut half of it off yesterday and needs some recovering.

Think this is a good start so far.

Let me know if you can see them so far
=

 

[ConorDash]

I can see those .
Cool cascade, I'd like to know how that could develop and look in future.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

I can see those .
Cool cascade, I'd like to know how that could develop and look in future.

Thanks. Ill probably post something down the line after pruning and wiring. Though I dont know when that will be or when it will be ready, Maybe next season. The dirt level in that pot is only 3-4 inches so its got another 4 inches of space in the top so that it would grow up and over, so when we re-pot it it should be around 6 inches tall and about 2 feet long.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

@MaxTheSpy - Hi Max, For azalea, the one with the flowers, read through the "Flowering" sub forum here on BNut, lots of good information, Especially posts from Mellow Mullet, and JohnG.

John has 9 videos on You Tube videos on azalea, and many on other bonsai topics, including one or two on Juniper.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAm05iqaJR1M1rEhmaUwK1Zp9sOs82U0q

Nice trees, I like them both. For the azalea, you have your picture of it in bloom, you repotted this year and started pruning, both activities stress the azalea, cut those blooms off so it can use that energy to recover. Seriously, I used to scoff at those who preached cutting the blooms off, otherwise, what is the point of raising azalea? But after a decade or so of raising azalea, I found out the hard way, blooms, especially allowing all the possible buds to bloom really does stress the tree. I cut off all but maybe 3 blooms from azalea I am planning on working on, or ones I worked hard the year previous. Much better results. Only let them bloom out fully if the year previous you did no root work, and no drastic pruning, and are not planning to do drastic pruning and root work the season you let them bloom. In other words, only let all the flowers come when you are planning on showing the tree. I do usually leave between 1 and 6 flowers to bloom, just because I need something to inspire me to keep working the tree. (I loose interest in boxwood, because they have no flowers and autumn color is boring - they stay green).

Just a helpful suggestion, try to get used to using the names for the trees. I had trouble figuring out which tree you were talking about, as you started with talking about Bristlecone pines. Use azalea, or juniper, or what ever the name of the tree is. If one were to drop into the thread, and not see the photo, or if you talk about ''the tree'' two posts past the photo, it is not clear which or what you are talking about. Just a helpful suggestion, it takes time to get used to the names, all Latin or Greek, but eventually it will get easy, and it really helps when looking for advice if others know right away what genus or species of tree you are talking about. Just trying to be helpful. It took me a few years to get used to the botanical names, but eventually it becomes easy.

 

[MaxTheSpy]

@MaxTheSpy - Hi Max, For azalea, the one with the flowers, read through the "Flowering" sub forum here on BNut, lots of good information, Especially posts from Mellow Mullet, and JohnG.

John has 9 videos on You Tube videos on azalea, and many on other bonsai topics, including one or two on Juniper.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAm05iqaJR1M1rEhmaUwK1Zp9sOs82U0q

Nice trees, I like them both. For the azalea, you have your picture of it in bloom, you repotted this year and started pruning, both activities stress the azalea, cut those blooms off so it can use that energy to recover. Seriously, I used to scoff at those who preached cutting the blooms off, otherwise, what is the point of raising azalea? But after a decade or so of raising azalea, I found out the hard way, blooms, especially allowing all the possible buds to bloom really does stress the tree. I cut off all but maybe 3 blooms from azalea I am planning on working on, or ones I worked hard the year previous. Much better results. Only let them bloom out fully if the year previous you did no root work, and no drastic pruning, and are not planning to do drastic pruning and root work the season you let them bloom. In other words, only let all the flowers come when you are planning on showing the tree. I do usually leave between 1 and 6 flowers to bloom, just because I need something to inspire me to keep working the tree. (I loose interest in boxwood, because they have no flowers and autumn color is boring - they stay green).

Just a helpful suggestion, try to get used to using the names for the trees. I had trouble figuring out which tree you were talking about, as you started with talking about Bristlecone pines. Use azalea, or juniper, or what ever the name of the tree is. If one were to drop into the thread, and not see the photo, or if you talk about ''the tree'' two posts past the photo, it is not clear which or what you are talking about. Just a helpful suggestion, it takes time to get used to the names, all Latin or Greek, but eventually it will get easy, and it really helps when looking for advice if others know right away what genus or species of tree you are talking about. Just trying to be helpful. It took me a few years to get used to the botanical names, but eventually it becomes easy.

should I cut them off even if they are already blooming? or leave the ones that are blooming and cut the buds off?

Please and thanks.