Extreme Bonsai

[Maloghurst]

If you sell a lie long enough and loud enough from a position of respect, power, or fear; everntually people will believe it.

Are you quoting Mein Kampf? This was Hitler's quote and tactic. Also trumps main tactic.

 

[watchndsky]

is it me or does it seem everybody's arguing constantly lately?

of course accusing vance of being a racist fascist hitler never seems to go out of style.

 

[LanceMac10]

Hogwash.....everyone knows Hitler wore lederhosen when he was off the clock!!!

It's all right here in this 1000+ page turner!!! Not advisable reading material for a domestic flight, however!!! Why yes, Mr. TSA agent, I will take a moment to "collect myself"......

 

[milehigh_7]

Are you quoting Mein Kampf? This was Hitler's quote and tactic. Also trumps main tactic.

@Maloghurst Go play in traffic

 

[milehigh_7]

I'm not really on a mission to change anyone's mind regarding climate change, and I don't even think doing so really matters any longer. The damage is already done, we are just waiting for the results to kick in and it will happen the way it will happen regardless of what anyone believes. Economic factors will drive change, at least mostly so in this country, and it is a big duh that renewables will win as technology advances because duh sunlight, wind, etc is free. Why else would all the big petroleum companies be investing so heavily in it.

That said, what is amusing to the point of painful hilarity is to watch sooooo many people right here on this forum who 1) think they are accurately assessing global climate change by looking out their window, or 2) cherry-pick, or listen to others who are cherry-picking small subsets of data to support a particular conclusion, and 3) are contemptuous of researchers and science in general who have huge amounts of data, the ability to analyze it, and have the training and knowledge to understand what it means. I assume these same people would naturally not believe a cancer diagnosis for a persistent cough because they've coughed before.

Forgive my contempt of you in this matter, if you like, or not, as either way you deserve it. I still value your opinions and insight regarding bonsai!

Pretty sure nobody gives a shit about your contempt. Save it for the rest of your intellectual equals on 'The View' or where ever you were educated. I am sick to death of intellectually inferior idiots like Billy Nye and his ilk believing they have the high ground when they are not even real scientists. Look I'm sure you have read your share of op-eds in the NY Times so you must know what you are talking about right?

 

[milehigh_7]

I do not want to go too much into detail here, but most of you only grasp the surface about climate change and its consequences and how it interacts with other climacteric phenomena.

1. you should all clarify you minds. Most of you are talking about weather, not climate. Completely different things.

2. Yes climate change also predicts that weather will be more unstable (cool days in summer, hot days in winter). Storms will become more frequente and so will be other climacteric extremes (e.g. droughts, floods, etc).

3. There are other phenomena that interact with climate change. We are currently entering in a negative NAO (North Atlantic Oscillation) phase which means cooler temps in most of the northern hemisphere. Does this mean that the overall mean temperature over 30 year cycles is decreasing? NO. It just camouflages it for a few years.

4. Scientists have long passed the phase they discussed whether climate change is happening or not. That's a fact. Plenty of evidence. Scientists are now more concerned about the impacts and how these can be mitigated.

5. My country does not produce oil. Still the same science.

6. Yes. Climate is dynamic, and naturally so. It has changed in the past without the human help. It wiped nearly all life on Earth. But it has never changed as fast. We have also never experienced such high concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere. But does this mean that climate change is not happening and that we, humans, are not affecting it?

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I do investigate the effects of climate change on marine ecosystems. I am not supported by fuel or anti-fuel companies. I have no political bias, at least not relevant for the USA context.

Am I hoping to change the minds of those who do not "belief" in climate change. No. My purpose is that those who might read this also know that there are other views.

Who pays you?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

Who pays you?

I've got a post-doctoral grant gained via competitive application. Money comes part from local government (Portugal) and part from EU funds for science. The referee of the application was international panel from many countries.

 

[milehigh_7]

I've got a post-doctoral grant gained via competitive application. Money comes part from local government (Portugal) and part from EU funds for science. The referee of the application was international panel from many countries.

So government grants... as I was saying...

 

[Velodog2]

This last sentence is indicative of the kind of discourse we are experiencing and the ending results that have manifested themselves during this last week with the base ball shooting. You wrote: Forgive my contempt of you in this matter, if you like, or not, as either way you deserve it. The left has sunk to this level of looking on those with whom they disagree with contempt. I don't look on you with contempt even though I don't agree with you, why is that?

It's a good question Vance. You are completely correct as far as I'm concerned. I can't answer it completely, but I do have some thoughts.

The internet (possibly, I think, it is popular to blame it for everything these days) has made everyone's opinion equal. Everyone thinks their opinion is as valuable and as valid as everyone else's, regardless of background, knowledge, etc. We see this in the bonsai forum. But there is still, always, an objective truth out there, even though we are dealing with partly at least an art form so in some ways we are not a great example. But half of the the current political establishment is spending a lot of time and effort to try to make us forget that with its alternative facts crap (good lord I should stop right there - anyone who can say that with a straight face or buy into that idea is worthy of contempt). I think that's why good ol' Hitler is trotted out so damned frequently - because he is one of the few things the world seems to be able to agree on as an example of objective evil. But if you go back historically it was not always so. As the war was unfolding there were many opinions (even without the internet). This is a case where it is clear, by current consensus anyway, that some were right and some were not.

In present day terms when I see people defending and supporting people who are clearly and demonstrably a liars, it is difficult not to feel contempt, and I don't make a lot of effort not to. The objective truth is that they lie, and there is plenty of reason, outlined in my first post and better in others, to believe they are lying about climate change as well. Climate change is part of that ball of wax, because the "right" has made it so.

 

[Dorky_gearhead]

Damn I could go for a 100 degree day lol. It's supposed to be 108 today . No es bueno!

 

[StoneCloud]

Extreme Bonsai:

 

[milehigh_7]

Damn I could go for a 100 degree day lol. It's supposed to be 108 today . No es bueno!

108 is a nice night temp!

 

[Dorky_gearhead]

108 is a nice night temp!

Yikes!!!

 

[Gustavo Martins]

So government grants... as I was saying...

Means nothing. They have absolutely no influence on who gets the money or on the outcome of research. That's actually a disclaimer we have to do whenever we publish something. And on top of that do not compare my government to yours. They are completely different in most respects. Besides, there is virtually no private investment in research here.

 

[Dorky_gearhead]

I lived In Phoenix for a while. It was like 33 days straight with 100+ temps so I know what you mean. I couldnt imagine having bonsai in that kind of weather

 

[Maloghurst]

Are you quoting Mein Kampf? This was Hitler's quote and tactic. Also trumps main tactic.

is it me or does it seem everybody's arguing constantly lately?

of course accusing vance of being a racist fascist hitler never seems to go out of style.

View attachment 149738

Those are your words. I said I believe Vance to be a good person. I was simply saying he was basically quoting Hitler. Political beliefs aside how can you not agree that this sounds like a Trump tactic?
"If you sell a lie long enough and loud enough from a position of respect, power, or fear; everntually people will believe it."

 

[leatherback]

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I do investigate the effects of climate change on marine ecosystems. I am not supported by fuel or anti-fuel companies. I have no political bias, at least not relevant for the USA context.

Thank you. As an ecologist & spatial data specialist, I fully agree with your assessment, and do get tired of the ever continuing discussion on scientists being on the payrooll of goverment and thus pushing political agenda's on climate change.

 

[milehigh_7]

All you have to do is follow the $$$. Al Gore has made hundreds of millions selling this to gullible lemmings. If you want to pretend you are not beholden to those who approve your funding, go ahead.

 

[watchndsky]

Those are your words. I said I believe Vance to be a good person. I was simply saying he was basically quoting Hitler. Political beliefs aside how can you not agree that this sounds like EVERY politicans tactic?
"If you sell a lie long enough and loud enough from a position of respect, power, or fear; everntually people will believe it."

fixed it for you....

 

[leatherback]

All you have to do is follow the $$$. Al Gore has made hundreds of millions

You are of course absolutely right!
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5503955
Chevron and Total wrapped up a string of gargantuan, record-breaking earnings reports from oil companies on Friday, a stretch in which six of the major international oil companies topped $50 billion in combined profit for the first time.