Black Pine Seedling Cuttings

[Dan92119]

I was wondering if anyone has tried this technique on other types of tree seedlings? Maybe oak seedlings to get rid of the tap root.

 

[Dav4]

I was wondering if anyone has tried this technique on other types of tree seedlings? Maybe oak seedlings to get rid of the tap root.

I did it with some trident seedlings at the same time I cut my JBP seedlings... the results are very promising.

 

[MindTone]

When creating exposed root how much/fast can you expose them? I've understood to first let grow for a season bit haven't seen anything on the rest

 

[Zaratrusta]

I was wondering if anyone has tried this technique on other types of tree seedlings? Maybe oak seedlings to get rid of the tap root.

Just this year I will try the technique with 30 seeds of oak (Quercus robur and pyrenaica). If I get good results, I'll let you know.

 

[Anthony]

Folks,

talk to Dallas Bonsai ---- see if they will re-order J.B.pine seeds from
the Fujiyama Tool co.

When we were using seeds, these always germinated well.
31 seeds - 25 or so germinated [ no cold needed ] and about 20 or so
were normal to fast growing.

When we ordered from Amazon, the seeds were weak and not one matched
the Fujiyama batches.

Additionally, if you look into the colander grown Black pines [ article in Bonsai Today ]
, there is a small illustration up at the top where it shown how far up to cut to encourage
the surface roots in a colander.

The colander was to encourage the large surface roots and hence thicken the
trunk.
The use of the second colander was to further encourage the surface roots
to go coarser and coarser, hence become thicker and make the trunk
larger.

I suspect he also had better seed.

The J.b.pine is a soft wood and should behave like the Willow ficus.
which also a soft wood. Sacrificial branches will give fast thickening.

Tested the idea on a Caribbean pine which is a hardwood.
Colander does nothing for roots or trunk as thickening goes.
Good Luck
Anthony

 

[Bonsai Nut]

That article was first translated from Japanese to Spanish. Then from Spanish to English. Then published.

There are likely translation errors.

Yeah, like he didn't say "six" years, he said "sixty"

 

[Adair M]

Yeah, like he didn't say "six" years, he said "sixty"

Maybe 16.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Maybe 16.

Yeah I am just kidding. I think your estimate is more reasonable. Some of my black pines I've had for over 20 years and they aren't speed demons

 

[markyscott]

When creating exposed root how much/fast can you expose them? I've understood to first let grow for a season bit haven't seen anything on the rest

Hi MT. My intention is to let them grow for several seasons before starting to expose the roots. I’ll start when the lower pot is colonized.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Yeah I am just kidding. I think your estimate is more reasonable. Some of my black pines I've had for over 20 years and they aren't speed demons

I think what impressed me the most about Matsuo’s photo was not the trunk size, it was the refinement. That tree had already been decandled several times before that photograph was taken. I’d say at least twice, but perhaps as many as three times. I think I can get the thickness and movement he achieved in 6 years - perhaps even more. But I doubt that I can get the refinement at the same time.

Scott

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I think what impressed me the most about Matsuo’s photo was not the trunk size, it was the refinement. That tree had already been decandled several times before that photograph was taken. I’d say at least twice, but perhaps as many as three times. I think I can get the thickness and movement he achieved in 6 years - perhaps even more. But I doubt that I can get the refinement at the same time.

Scott

Yes; that single article is probably the most famous / infamous in the history of Bonsai Today. I remember poring over it numerous times and can still remember most of the details. It is that one single photo of the "6 year tree" that seems crazy - there are many other photos that show more reasonable development rates for black pine after 10 years, 15 years, etc - more in line with what people would tend to expect.

Still... the article is about black pine from seed and six seasons is not a lot of time - even assuming you have all your growth exactly where you want it and the tree responds perfectly.

We should have a 6-year black pine from seed contest

 

[jacob letoile]

We should have a 6-year black pine from seed contest

This is one of the things that blows my mind about bonsai and bonsai people. I'm 40 and my whole life has been spent in the moment. The past is a memory and the future an illusion, there is only the ever present now. I read the above, said I know in jest, and it is true enough to blow my mind. Thanks all for a longer perspective. I'm working on it

 

[Anthony]

Hmm, took Scott's image of Mr. Matsuo's tree to 4",
Calipers.
Trunk goes to 1.25 "

The standard technique to ensure density close to the first branch is a
cut down, which I believe the article mentions, if not the other article
on J.b.pine.

Nothing special.

If you grow the tree out to 30 - 36 inches in height the trunk will reach
1".
With a cut down ..................

I have noticed that the seedlings you guys put up are always much thinner
and less dense of leaf.
Our soil is a simple mix of 5 mm silica based gravel and about 30 % by volume
peat moss for seedlings by volume in around 4 " earthenware pots.

Later a transfer to a wider, but not deeper earthenware container.
Next transfer is to yet another wider but not deeper earthenware conatiner
finally to around a 12 or 16" earthenware pot.
Never deeper than 5 to 6".

Soil remains the same.

Our tests have been more on Health, the oldest trees are 31 years old and
the source is Japan and the UK.

Will be cutting down more next year and testing colander / ground growing.

The intense training done by Sifu ' [ Adair ] and Scott is still a few years away.
As we have to build up personal stock from cuttings.
So show you images in 5 years.
Good Luck
Anthony

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This is one of the things that blows my mind about bonsai and bonsai people. I'm 40 and my whole life has been spent in the moment. The past is a memory and the future an illusion, there is only the ever present now. I read the above, said I know in jest, and it is true enough to blow my mind. Thanks all for a longer perspective. I'm working on it

Here's a quote to start your day:

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today."

And I wasn't jesting at all about the black pine seedling contest. I am seriously considering setting it up for fun. Last night I pulled out my old Bonsai Today to re-read that article and try to figure out which aspects were still applicable today - but I fell asleep too quickly I will check it out. A six year black pine contest needs to start around the first of the year.

 

[markyscott]

Here's a quote to start your day:

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today."

And I wasn't jesting at all about the black pine seedling contest. I am seriously considering setting it up for fun. Last night I pulled out my old Bonsai Today to re-read that article and try to figure out which aspects were still applicable today - but I fell asleep too quickly I will check it out. A six year black pine contest needs to start around the first of the year.

I’d be up for it!

Scott

 

[jacob letoile]

Would the first of the year be the stratification start date or the planting date?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Would the first of the year be the stratification start date or the planting date?

I think we would want to start with annual time-frames. So the contest would run January 1, 2018 - December 31, 2023. You can start as many seedlings as you like, and do whatever you want with them. The whole point is to see how far you can take the development of a JBP in 6 years. The focus would have to be on quality AND size... which tend to be conflicting goals with young JBP. Things that you do to increase trunk caliper, for example, tend to adversely impact (or at least slow down) fine ramification development. The only contest requirements would be an annual photo survey showing the tree's development at the end of each calendar year (six photos minimum). The goal would be for people to not only improve their JBP skills, but to share best practices with the broader community.

If you have the ability to start seeds early (say with a heated greenhouse) I am going to draw the arbitrary line that you can't start seed stratification until January 1, 2018. But in a general way we are looking for six full seasons of development.

 

[DirkvanDreven]

I think we would want to start with annual time-frames. So the contest would run January 1, 2018 - December 31, 2023. You can start as many seedlings as you like, and do whatever you want with them. The whole point is to see how far you can take the development of a JBP in 6 years. The focus would have to be on quality AND size... which tend to be conflicting goals with young JBP. Things that you do to increase trunk caliper, for example, tend to adversely impact (or at least slow down) fine ramification development. The only contest requirements would be an annual photo survey showing the tree's development at the end of each calendar year (six photos minimum). The goal would be for people to not only improve their JBP skills, but to share best practices with the broader community.

If you have the ability to start seeds early (say with a heated greenhouse) I am going to draw the arbitrary line that you can't start seed stratification until January 1, 2018. But in a general way we are looking for six full seasons of development.

Do we start with a bunch of seedlings or are we going to pick one after this first growing season?
Started this year with p. Thunbergii, P. Nigra and P. Uncinata; three trees that are called 'black pine'. Turned out I was first of all feeding mice. Only a few left. So I definitely want revenge! And like to join!

 

[jeanluc83]

We should have a 6-year black pine from seed contest

I think this is a really great idea!

 

[GGB]

Doing about 100 virginia pines this winter, still pines so nothing experimental