All aboard the Mugo train!

[Manmountain526]

This Mugo is a purchase from last year. I have not done anything to it yet other than cut the top of the pot down to clean out the dead needles off the soil. I did that when I first purchased it. Other than that it has been watered and some organic fertilizer since it started to warm up and begin growing. It is very vigorous. I can't wait to see what is under all of that this summer. I have a pond basket ready and waiting. I have been reading all of the Mugo resources on here since I purchased it and I am still intimidated lol.

 

[tree4me]

I am playing with a Seasonal Care Calendar for Mugo mostly for reminders. I've read the resource posted by @Lazylightningny based on @Vance Wood years of experience with them. In general, am I close and please feel free to recommend adjustments.

 

[petegreg]

Just how I understand this...
Bud selection - after July shoot pruning buds need more time to form, so maybe from October throughout winter.
Branch pruning - winter or July for backbudding.
Wiring small branches - late summer.
Repot - July, according to the resource in year 4 when we do not prune shoots
- in my climate early spring repotting works well too
Decandle / Shoot pruning - July.

If I am not right this will fill breaks in my understanding.

 

[tree4me]

If I am not right this will fill breaks in my understanding.

Me too. LOL

 

[eb84327]

So I am new to mugos and just received one. I am trying to understand when and what to do first. Can I start pruning now and removing buds? Should I do nothing untill July, repot into a pond baskets w/proper soild, or could I do that now? I live in n. Idaho 7b

 

[Vance Wood]

Another shot at the Zombi Mugo. Some branches removed and some stubs removed and the profile smoothed out.

 

[sorce]

Let me just drop this Mugo life Calander again....at approximate times...and approximate lengths. Ish. These are the visual cues.

Candles extend ... March-June _3-5 weeks
Needles open....May-July _1-3 weeks
Regaining Energy....June-August. 4-8 weeks
Bud Reinforcement...Aug- Sep 2-3 days
Sugar Loading...after Bud Reinforcement - Dormancy and beyond.

I am playing with a Seasonal Care Calendar for Mugo mostly for reminders. I've read the resource posted by @Lazylightningny based on @Vance Wood years of experience with them. In general, am I close and please feel free to recommend adjustmentsView attachment 192451.

BUDS
For me....bud selection is a thought.
Bud removal is an action....
And can/should be done whenever the tree is healthy(can survive it) and it is required.
(Here and there's seperate by healthy weeks)

If you missed one and it is a candle....pop it off...unless you don't have to yet.

I think the appropriate time is after Bud Reinforcement push in August. Until a week or so before candles start to extend. (This would be the "insult" if you will, an actual MOVE.)

BRANCH PRUNING.
This should have 2 designations, at least.

Heavy Structure Pruning..which is mostly taking these from Nursery Mugo to Bonsai Mugo. Knuckle Removal..etc.

And the prescribed July cut back of new growth to finely ramify our newly Bonsaid Mugo.

In the beginning....we WILL be taking off more.

The most appropriate time to remove a lot of Foliage with Heavy Structure Pruning...During Rests....a bit before Spring and Fall Bud actions.

Right before Candles extend...and Bud reinforcement...the tree is receiving signals and thinking about its best path forward for the next thing it puts energy to. To least confuse the tree....we must prune these branches before this determination in the tree. So when it has the "conversation" between roots and buds...telling it what to do between, it already knows that branvhes potential energy is gone...so it allocates its energy to other buds and branches.

This is why July Pruning is most successful.
Well after Regaining Energy.
And well before the "conversation" to Reinforce Buds.

When we prune Any tree after or during this conversation.....the tree is then pumping energy into shit that is not there....

Hence...Bleeding Out...

This is why there is a disagreement about wether or not any tree "Bleed out" or "weep".
Ahem. Maples .

BENDING LARGE BRANCHES.
Health dependant, any time you won't knock off delicate candles.

WIRING SMALL BRANCHES.
Also NO WHERE near candle time. Too delicate.
For me, (Spruce Show and Prove) any branches, conifer especially, set best during late summer, during Sugar Loading.
Not after Dormant....Not during growth...Not in fall...
They should be wired before Sugar Loading begins.
IMO, provided we don't make any Ill-timed Moves the rest of the year...and if we wire appropriately, which means cracking heartwood and setting a solid design...amy tree should set within this one season period.

Remember the 2 different ways branches set. Consider the aesthetic ends.
1. Ridges of Cambium over Bent Branches.
2. Smooth Cambium Over Broken Branches.

Consider Heartwood.
A bent branch will go back if let go.
A cracked branch will not.
How long does it take each scenario to set?

REPOTTING.
I fully believe people can successfully repot Mugo in Spring...even fall...
However....
2 people can be successful at the same job. One can make twice the hourly wage.
If never discussed the one who earns half the wages will feel just as successful.

REPOT IN A SMALLER WINDOW
around the Solstice. Rain and Wane.
Before the "conversation" between the roots and buds.

We must see how interrupting this conversation fucks everything up.

Double your pay. Don't repot in May!

FERTILIZER. Yes!
I have been generally Full or more Fish dosing my Pugo Mine every 2-3 days at least. In observing this springs candles I am noting smaller stretches of excellent healthy candles.
Length of Needleless Necks seems to have more to do with the strength of the buds selected to keep, over amount of fert.

In observing Mugo still in Nursery pots...and Basketed ones...

It seems there is a Very Direct relation between running roots and long candles and Air pruned roots amd short candles.

A "self balancing" that feels real.

Though proof would come if we notice Longer Candles Again when in a Bonsai Pot.

It Depends being....

The condition of the root Mass when out into the pot...
A Brick of feeders and a solid core(shin) will likely go on to produce small candles for a while.
I premature repot may run and circle long roots, hence, long candles.....

Shape and airyness of pot then matters....
Soil matters.
Watering matters....
But fert will just keep em healthy. IMO.

Fish Da Dish!

MOOG!

Sorce

 

[Bonsai901]

Vance, all of this has confused me a bit...
I thought all heavy work (pruning, repotting, etc.) takes place in July.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, all of this has confused me a bit...
I thought all heavy work (pruning, repotting, etc.) takes place in July.

Let me just drop this Mugo life Calander again....at approximate times...and approximate lengths. Ish. These are the visual cues.

Candles extend ... March-June _3-5 weeks
Needles open....May-July _1-3 weeks
Regaining Energy....June-August. 4-8 weeks
Bud Reinforcement...Aug- Sep 2-3 days
Sugar Loading...after Bud Reinforcement - Dormancy and beyond.




BUDS
For me....bud selection is a thought.
Bud removal is an action....
And can/should be done whenever the tree is healthy(can survive it) and it is required.
(Here and there's seperate by healthy weeks)

If you missed one and it is a candle....pop it off...unless you don't have to yet.

I think the appropriate time is after Bud Reinforcement push in August. Until a week or so before candles start to extend. (This would be the "insult" if you will, an actual MOVE.)


BRANCH PRUNING.
This should have 2 designations, at least.

Heavy Structure Pruning..which is mostly taking these from Nursery Mugo to Bonsai Mugo. Knuckle Removal..etc.

And the prescribed July cut back of new growth to finely ramify our newly Bonsaid Mugo.

In the beginning....we WILL be taking off more.

The most appropriate time to remove a lot of Foliage with Heavy Structure Pruning...During Rests....a bit before Spring and Fall Bud actions.

Right before Candles extend...and Bud reinforcement...the tree is receiving signals and thinking about its best path forward for the next thing it puts energy to. To least confuse the tree....we must prune these branches before this determination in the tree. So when it has the "conversation" between roots and buds...telling it what to do between, it already knows that branvhes potential energy is gone...so it allocates its energy to other buds and branches.

This is why July Pruning is most successful.
Well after Regaining Energy.
And well before the "conversation" to Reinforce Buds.

When we prune Any tree after or during this conversation.....the tree is then pumping energy into shit that is not there....

Hence...Bleeding Out...

This is why there is a disagreement about wether or not any tree "Bleed out" or "weep".
Ahem. Maples .

BENDING LARGE BRANCHES.
Health dependant, any time you won't knock off delicate candles.

WIRING SMALL BRANCHES.
Also NO WHERE near candle time. Too delicate.
For me, (Spruce Show and Prove) any branches, conifer especially, set best during late summer, during Sugar Loading.
Not after Dormant....Not during growth...Not in fall...
They should be wired before Sugar Loading begins.
IMO, provided we don't make any Ill-timed Moves the rest of the year...and if we wire appropriately, which means cracking heartwood and setting a solid design...amy tree should set within this one season period.

Remember the 2 different ways branches set. Consider the aesthetic ends.
1. Ridges of Cambium over Bent Branches.
2. Smooth Cambium Over Broken Branches.

Consider Heartwood.
A bent branch will go back if let go.
A cracked branch will not.
How long does it take each scenario to set?

REPOTTING.
I fully believe people can successfully repot Mugo in Spring...even fall...
However....
2 people can be successful at the same job. One can make twice the hourly wage.
If never discussed the one who earns half the wages will feel just as successful.

REPOT IN A SMALLER WINDOW
around the Solstice. Rain and Wane.
Before the "conversation" between the roots and buds.

We must see how interrupting this conversation fucks everything up.

Double your pay. Don't repot in May!

FERTILIZER. Yes!
I have been generally Full or more Fish dosing my Pugo Mine every 2-3 days at least. In observing this springs candles I am noting smaller stretches of excellent healthy candles.
Length of Needleless Necks seems to have more to do with the strength of the buds selected to keep, over amount of fert.

In observing Mugo still in Nursery pots...and Basketed ones...

It seems there is a Very Direct relation between running roots and long candles and Air pruned roots amd short candles.

A "self balancing" that feels real.

Though proof would come if we notice Longer Candles Again when in a Bonsai Pot.

It Depends being....

The condition of the root Mass when out into the pot...
A Brick of feeders and a solid core(shin) will likely go on to produce small candles for a while.
I premature repot may run and circle long roots, hence, long candles.....

Shape and airyness of pot then matters....
Soil matters.
Watering matters....
But fert will just keep em healthy. IMO.

Fish Da Dish!

MOOG!

Sorce

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, all of this has confused me a bit...
I thought all heavy work (pruning, repotting, etc.) takes place in July.

It does not have to but it can, and thats the point. It has been my experience that repotting done in early spring, as done according to the two needle pine play book, can fail at dramatically high levels with Mugo Pines, one of the reasons the Mugo Pine was vilified by mainstream bonsai intelegencia for many years. Those who did grow Mugos or tried to grow Mugos stated that they were fussy about having their roots messed with. So; extreme caution in working the roots was suggested. I still have books where that is said by reputable authors. Don't ask me who I wont tell you.

The point, Bonsai901, is that Mugos are incredible tolerant of a lot of what has recently been called insults, a term I detest because life is not an insult, saying that you can only insult a Mugo with one insult a year. It is not the number of insults but the time of year you insult them. It has been my experience that you can do all of this stuff at the same time in the same year if the tree is healthy. This works for me, you can follow my lead or do it your own way or someone else's way. Life is after all a crap shoot you just have to be careful that you don't shoot your own.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, all of this has confused me a bit...
I thought all heavy work (pruning, repotting, etc.) takes place in July.

It does not have to but it can, and thats the point. It has been my experience that repotting done in early spring, as done according to the two needle pine play book, can fail at dramatically high levels with Mugo Pines, one of the reasons the Mugo Pine was vilified by mainstream bonsai intelegencia for many years. Those who did grow Mugos or tried to grow Mugos stated that they were fussy about having their roots messed with. So; extreme caution in working the roots was suggested. I still have books where that is said by reputable authors. Don't ask me who I wont tell you.

The point, Bonsai901, is that Mugos are incredible tolerant of a lot of what has recently been called insults, a term I detest because life is not an insult. Saying that you can only insult a Mugo with one insult a year is an ignorant approach out of touch with what is really possible. It is not the number of insults but the time of year you insult them. It has been my experience that you can do all of this stuff at the same time in the same year if the tree is healthy. It has been my experience that all of this can be done at the same time after the Sumer Solstice. I do not use this event as a magical marker, I do not put on my pointy hat, sacrifice a cat, or chant at the moon before doing any of this. it is simply an easily understood marker of time. This works for me, you can follow my lead or do it your own way or someone else's way. Life is after all a crap shoot you just have to be careful that you don't shoot your own.

You can prune any time if you understand what can happen when you prune and you understand the sectored architecture of the Mugo Pine and it's tendency to die to the roots during a heavy pruning of a branch with no downstairs neighbor to pick up the sap flow. Now I did it, I brought up the subject of Sectored Architecture. There are trees that grow in such a way that the upper growth is directly attached to a specific root. If you kill that specific root the associated upper growth will die with it and vice versa; kill the upper growth and the root will die. This is why you see dead wood that snakes around a tree to the ground and specific portions of a trunk that are dead with the remains of a large branch at the top. You have heard people talk about life lines. On many Junipers you can see these life lines in the muscular appearance of the trunk.

You can wire anytime but you have to be very careful during the early spring where you can damage the bark in very unusual and dangerous ways; specifically by slipping the bark. As far as the hemorrhaging of sap at these cut ends; this can be controlled by using cut paste or wax from a melted industrial crayon applied to the wound and heated with a small torch.

 

[M. Frary]

It is not the number of insults but the time of year you insult them. It has been my experience that you can do all of this stuff at the same time in the same year if the tree is healthy. It has been my experience that all of this can be done at the same time after the Sumer Solstice

I back you on this. Ive been there with you. Seen it done. Seen the results.
I'll take pictures of you doing it this year at the show. We'll use the mugo I got from you last year. It gets that nice round pot I tried to sell last year.
For anyone who hasn't seen what Vance does to Mugo pines in person these pictures might give them an idea on exactly how far one can be pushed or insulted at one time.

 

[Vance Wood]

I back you on this. Ive been there with you. Seen it done. Seen the results.
I'll take pictures of you doing it this year at the show. We'll use the mugo I got from you last year. It gets that nice round pot I tried to sell last year.
For anyone who hasn't seen what Vance does to Mugo pines in person these pictures might give them an idea on exactly how far one can be pushed or insulted at one time.

Thanks Mike, they are wonderful trees.

 

[Lazylightningny]

Another contribution. I purchased this in March of this year. Pruned two low branches, and now waiting for July to prune foliage, root prune, and wire.

 

[Vance Wood]

Another contribution. I purchased this in March of this year. Pruned two low branches, and now waiting for July to prune foliage, root prune, and wire.

View attachment 193055View attachment 193056

You can start opening up the tree now or wait and do both in July. It will not hurt anything if you open up the image now just to let the light in. Just remove stuff you know you wont need like the already dead and shriveled growth and anything that grows straight down from the bottom of branches.
.

 

[Lazylightningny]

You can start opening up the tree now or wait and do both in July. It will not hurt anything if you open up the image now just to let the light in. Just remove stuff you know you wont need like the already dead and shriveled growth and anything that grows straight down from the bottom of branches.
.

I've already cleaned up all the dead twigs. So you're saying I can start eliminating some branches now to open it up to the sun?

 

[Vance Wood]

I've already cleaned up all the dead twigs. So you're saying I can start eliminating some branches now to open it up to the sun?

Yes, as long as you keep to the concept of stubs. Remove downward growing needles and downward growing small branches. Get some light into the tree.

 

[tree4me]

Ok, so this morning I trimmed some smaller branches, removed some needles and wired. Good or bad the deed has been done and I'll see how it reacts. Critiques? Advise?Eulogy?

 

[Vance Wood]

Ok, so this morning I trimmed some smaller branches, removed some needles and wired. Good or bad the deed has been done and I'll see how it reacts. Critiques? Advise?Eulogy?


View attachment 193088 View attachment 193089

I think it'l be alright. Somehow I seem to have left people with the idea that I don't do anything before the summer solstice, which is not true, I just don't mess with the roots till the solstice. For what it's worth I think your work is very good. You need to remove more but that can wait.

 

[eb84327]

I think it'l be alright. Somehow I seem to have left people with the idea that I don't do anything before the summer solstice, which is not true, I just don't mess with the roots till the solstice. For what it's worth I think your work is very good. You need to remove more but that can wait.

Thank you i am a new member andI have been reading through some back post, and I was having a hard time understanding mugo care. This post clears up some of that confusion.