It’s not bad. But search for Mark Comstock on Facebook. He has JBP seedling cuttings that are great starters. And other trees as well.
Path to JBP bonsai in 10 years
- Thread starter Cajunrider
- Start date
Ok, you have other styles. But unless you post them, as you just did, how am I expected to know?Adair M, post: 613777, member: 13405"]Well...
Let me just say that there are many ways to enjoy the bonsai hobby. There’s no one “right” way.
You are absolutely correct!
The problem with starting with seeds is if you make a beginner mistake early on, you’re stuck with it!
Might be.
Your trees, bonhe, are pretty much all literati. Long thin trunks with movement, no taper and no low branches. If that’s what you want, that’s great! But what if you wanted shohin? What if you want a tree with taper? What if you want a tree with low branches? Your trees aren’t suitable for those styles.
Haha, because you did not see all my trees, I don't think it is good judgment from your side!
However, I love literati and natural style because they help me obtain more creative ideas and reward mentally and physically!
I have quite a few of small pines. Here is a few 10 yo KBP in training.
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There’s no shame in buying decent starter material. It still takes a while to make a good structure, develop ramification, even if you start with a good trunk!
I agree. But one should still to start seedlings to learn from them. You don't want to burn your money on the decent material when you have no or little experience.
Thụ Thoại
But, let’s take the last two pictures. Looks like it (they) had a trunk chop to create some taper. Then, sometime later, another chop.
Now, just think what those little trees would have been if instead of chopping them so that only one branch continues the trunk line, there had been another branch on the outside of the curve!
Maybe their current image is what you intended, but in my mind, they would have been 1000% better leaving a lower branch where the chops were made.
0soyoung
Imperial Masterpiece
Matt O dies produce lots of seedlings. I don’t think he makes seedling cuttings like Comstock does.
Another source is Jonas at BonsaiTonight. He does seedling cuttings. But not in the volume that Comstock does.
@bonhe, if you had left some low branches when you chopped the trunks, you could have made something like this:
This is still rough stock, I’m letting it grow so that a couple grafts have more time to take. But I have low branches, which is really important for shohin.
Now, I will have to say that your styling appears to be more Chinese Penjing influenced than mine. I tend to run more Classical Japanese. If that’s the case, then your styling is probably meeting your vision.
(my little tree will be getting a fall/winter cleanup this week.)
This is still rough stock, I’m letting it grow so that a couple grafts have more time to take. But I have low branches, which is really important for shohin.
Now, I will have to say that your styling appears to be more Chinese Penjing influenced than mine. I tend to run more Classical Japanese. If that’s the case, then your styling is probably meeting your vision.
(my little tree will be getting a fall/winter cleanup this week.)
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
The way we use seed is to find the super growers for
our more Tropical Climate.
[ and to look for the 1" needle pine ]
Presently the 30 or so seedlings are going through the
sorting situation.
Normally only 5 to 10 will make it.
BUT the 5 to 10 that make it grow fast and can trunk thicken
faster.
Same should happen in Louisiana or Pennsylvania.
Then we move onto cuttings for stock.
We already had 5 or so growers before the J.B.[ine 6 year bit.
It takes about 4 years for seedlings to prove their worth.
Merry Christmas
Anthony
our more Tropical Climate.
[ and to look for the 1" needle pine ]
Presently the 30 or so seedlings are going through the
sorting situation.
Normally only 5 to 10 will make it.
BUT the 5 to 10 that make it grow fast and can trunk thicken
faster.
Same should happen in Louisiana or Pennsylvania.
Then we move onto cuttings for stock.
We already had 5 or so growers before the J.B.[ine 6 year bit.
It takes about 4 years for seedlings to prove their worth.
Merry Christmas
Anthony
So, Anthony, I understand your situation... JBP aren’t available from anyone else, so if you want one, you have to grow it yourself. But, for the rest of us, there are plenty of vendors selling 4 to 5 year old starters to pick from.
Those of us getting up there in years like getting a 4 year head start!
bonhe
Masterpiece
="Adair M, post: 613808, member: 13405"]Ok, you have other styles. But unless you post them, as you just did, how am I expected to know?
Haha, if you don't know, don't make assumption!
But, let’s take the last two pictures. Looks like it (they) had a trunk chop to create some taper. Then, sometime later, another chop.
Now, just think what those little trees would have been if instead of chopping them so that only one branch continues the trunk line, there had been another branch on the outside of the curve!
Maybe their current image is what you intended, but in my mind, they would have been 1000% better leaving a lower branch where the chops were made.
Yes, it is my intention. This is the way I trained my pines from seeds. In the first few years, I wired them heavily. After that, I mainly used cut and grow technique to obtain the sharp turn on the trunk line and taper purposes. I used wire here and there only when I wanted the soft curve effect.
if you had left some low branches when you chopped the trunks, you could have made something like this:
This is still rough stock, I’m letting it grow so that a couple grafts have more time to take. But I have low branches, which is really important for shohin.
Yes, you have a nice shohin- to -be, no doubt.
Now, I will have to say that your styling appears to be more Chinese Penjing influenced than mine. I tend to run more Classical Japanese. If that’s the case, then your styling is probably meeting your vision.
Now, thank you for recognizing this!
Yes, my training technique is heavily influenced by Chinese painting. When I started joining into the bonsai hobby in 2007, I had a lot of bonsai show books from Japan. I studied from these books, then I came across the Tao of Painting book, by Mai-mai Sze, and the Way of Chinese Painting, by Mai-mai Sze. I was really amazed by its simple and humble. I got hook since then. Chinese painting uses a lot of negative space which is as important as the positive one. I has used both cut and grow and wiring technique in training the pines not only influenced by Chinese painting but also Chinese calligraphy! My bonsai teacher is really like my style. He told me that I put the stamp on my way training! I think it is a great compliment from the teacher who has almost 60 years experience in bonsai!
Thụ Thoại
p/s: just want to let you know that I will continue apply my training technique on Huangshan pine seedlings which I will start doing that next Spring. Huangshan pine will be a good candidate for my style!
Haha, if you don't know, don't make assumption!
But, let’s take the last two pictures. Looks like it (they) had a trunk chop to create some taper. Then, sometime later, another chop.
Now, just think what those little trees would have been if instead of chopping them so that only one branch continues the trunk line, there had been another branch on the outside of the curve!
Maybe their current image is what you intended, but in my mind, they would have been 1000% better leaving a lower branch where the chops were made.
Yes, it is my intention. This is the way I trained my pines from seeds. In the first few years, I wired them heavily. After that, I mainly used cut and grow technique to obtain the sharp turn on the trunk line and taper purposes. I used wire here and there only when I wanted the soft curve effect.
if you had left some low branches when you chopped the trunks, you could have made something like this:
This is still rough stock, I’m letting it grow so that a couple grafts have more time to take. But I have low branches, which is really important for shohin.
Yes, you have a nice shohin- to -be, no doubt.
Now, I will have to say that your styling appears to be more Chinese Penjing influenced than mine. I tend to run more Classical Japanese. If that’s the case, then your styling is probably meeting your vision.
Now, thank you for recognizing this!
Yes, my training technique is heavily influenced by Chinese painting. When I started joining into the bonsai hobby in 2007, I had a lot of bonsai show books from Japan. I studied from these books, then I came across the Tao of Painting book, by Mai-mai Sze, and the Way of Chinese Painting, by Mai-mai Sze. I was really amazed by its simple and humble. I got hook since then. Chinese painting uses a lot of negative space which is as important as the positive one. I has used both cut and grow and wiring technique in training the pines not only influenced by Chinese painting but also Chinese calligraphy! My bonsai teacher is really like my style. He told me that I put the stamp on my way training! I think it is a great compliment from the teacher who has almost 60 years experience in bonsai! Thụ Thoại
p/s: just want to let you know that I will continue apply my training technique on Huangshan pine seedlings which I will start doing that next Spring. Huangshan pine will be a good candidate for my style!
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Not bad for a hundred bucks!
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Sifu,
we also like to experiment and learn.
So it also rare we would purchase pre-packaged clay which
is easily available down here - chuckles.
Time not important only life..............................
Merry Christmas
Anthony
we also like to experiment and learn.
So it also rare we would purchase pre-packaged clay which
is easily available down here - chuckles.
Time not important only life..............................
Merry Christmas
Anthony
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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About @Cajunrider initial posts, and not wanting a mature, fully developed tree. When I first started, mature, fully developed trees seemed to be priced completely out of my budget. That and not understanding what it takes to maintain a mature, fully developed bonsai, I thought like you, that I did not want to be a ''caretaker'' of someone else's work. I wanted to grow my own. Now that I have been around the block. Now that I understand the horticulture better, this year I have spent $400 for a close to mature bonsai. I now understand the work needed to keep a mature tree in good condition, and the work to continuously develop and improve a mature bonsai. The work required is many times the man-hours required for less developed material. And while usually quite subtle, the continuous improvement of a mature tree is genuine creativity. Often more difficult, because you are only able to make small changes. Owning a mature bonsai, is a real challenge. SO I do understand your prejudice against purchasing a mature, fully developed, fully styled bonsai, as I used to think that way myself, I hope you will in the future recognize the unique set of challenges a more mature tree presents. Once you bring one of your own trees to this level, you will understand what it takes to keep a tree there, and realize you need to be just as creative to keep a fully mature bonsai in good condition. I now am willing to spend more on more mature trees, however, being forced into early retirement means I'm on a fixed income, so it is less likely I will ever spend more than $500 for a tree.
About being older, and starting trees for bonsai. You know I am 63, soon to be 64. I start batches of seedlings every year. Some I give away, some I sell, some I keep, some get composted. I might not live long enough to see these young seedlings mature to fully developed bonsai. However, I HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF LIVING LONG ENOUGH, and healthy enough to see these trees through. If I stop starting new projects now, because I'm 63 and won't live 20 years to finish these projects, I would really feel bad if I quit, and then end up living healthy to 100 or 110? Medicine keeps improving, who knows how long we will live. I'm planning on living for a long time. If it works out, great, if not, my heirs will have the job of figuring out what to do with all those trees in my yard.
About being older, and starting trees for bonsai. You know I am 63, soon to be 64. I start batches of seedlings every year. Some I give away, some I sell, some I keep, some get composted. I might not live long enough to see these young seedlings mature to fully developed bonsai. However, I HAVE EVERY INTENTION OF LIVING LONG ENOUGH, and healthy enough to see these trees through. If I stop starting new projects now, because I'm 63 and won't live 20 years to finish these projects, I would really feel bad if I quit, and then end up living healthy to 100 or 110? Medicine keeps improving, who knows how long we will live. I'm planning on living for a long time. If it works out, great, if not, my heirs will have the job of figuring out what to do with all those trees in my yard.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Thanks Leo for a very good perspective. I too want to learn the challenge of a mature tree. However, I just started last August and think I need a year under my belt at least before I attempt.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
It's your time and your personal goals that should determine what you are in fact going to buy / grow / style / look for.
The caring for mature this, or not being around to see a tree become mature later on that... it's all just the personal concerns of an individual.
I enjoy the process of seeing a seedling grow, but I also enjoy the idea of working on something mature, and everything in between. So I am shooting to have a little bit of everything age-wise. I can learn different techniques on different age material and enjoy the processes involved in all.
The caring for mature this, or not being around to see a tree become mature later on that... it's all just the personal concerns of an individual.
I enjoy the process of seeing a seedling grow, but I also enjoy the idea of working on something mature, and everything in between. So I am shooting to have a little bit of everything age-wise. I can learn different techniques on different age material and enjoy the processes involved in all.
