Browning Tips on Juniperus Chinensis

Shogun610

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Figured I’d post in here to ask.
So I had small branches near the apex that was wired up last fall.. Coming out of dormancy these branches were all brown and looked like we’re dying ... 2 weeks ago I repotted this in a mostly pumice substrate with some lava and hard akadama. It didn’t look so hot... but today after watering in am and at night. I noticed the tips were getting green again? Is this a good sign or should I just cut them off. The remaining foliage is all green and budding. Even some back budding on old branches. I think the soil mix is doing the tree good. Before it was just in nursery organic.
 

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In your mind revisit the work you did last fall, not just for a moment but thoroughly.
Now you have an idea what over working a branch means. Possibly rotating too far
or repositioning branches after placed, damaging the cambium.
I would like to see a before picture of this one.
 
Put fire to it and watch it turn green again!

That's how they keep the Home Depot Bonsai Nana's green!

You ever watch Emperor Penguins in the arctic?

The only way for them to live is to stay huddled together for warmth and protection from the freezing winds.

I consider Juniper foilage to be a lot like them penguins. If you have a small section too far from everything else, it will die, same as the penguins.

It may not be rough wiring that killed the branches, it may be the tree saying, "eff that foilage".

We have to remember that these things don't care to be bonsai. They only wish to be alive like them penguins.

Sorce
 
Put fire to it and watch it turn green again!

That's how they keep the Home Depot Bonsai Nana's green!

You ever watch Emperor Penguins in the arctic?

The only way for them to live is to stay huddled together for warmth and protection from the freezing winds.

I consider Juniper foilage to be a lot like them penguins. If you have a small section too far from everything else, it will die, same as the penguins.

It may not be rough wiring that killed the branches, it may be the tree saying, "eff that foilage".

We have to remember that these things don't care to be bonsai. They only wish to be alive like them penguins.

Sorce
Wait what? Haha I’m pretty sure the tree is just letting go of it .. but it was all brown a couple weeks ago and now there is a hint of green in them.. do brown tips ever revive? I have my eye on another one ... but I’m just trying to figure out what I did.. to @Japonicus question nah I didn’t take a before picture... I styled it in November though, I think some of the bends maybe were alittle harsh on the finer twigs but I didn’t hear any break. I practiced the shit out of my wiring around then just for that tree. Like callus on my fingers practice.. I used those hand scrunch bars for resistance training even at the gym.
 
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Put fire to it and watch it turn green again!

That's how they keep the Home Depot Bonsai Nana's green!

You ever watch Emperor Penguins in the arctic?

The only way for them to live is to stay huddled together for warmth and protection from the freezing winds.

I consider Juniper foilage to be a lot like them penguins. If you have a small section too far from everything else, it will die, same as the penguins.

It may not be rough wiring that killed the branches, it may be the tree saying, "eff that foilage".

We have to remember that these things don't care to be bonsai. They only wish to be alive like them penguins.

Sorce
Cleansing FIRE!

I started thinking of Robin Williams voicing penguins..... then I realized Robin Williams voiced MANY penguins in MORE THAN one movie... then smoke hit me in the eye... realized the spoon was still “rollin”... damn.

But I HAVE seen this “penguin effect” on J Communis AND Hinokis... so that’s a very understandable conclusion.

My first though aligned the damage with muscly fingerwork, much like @Japonicus had stated...

My actual internal quote was, “My tips would be brown if you twisted me like that, too!”

🤣
 
Ahh alright. So is there any chance for bac budding on these branches? I guess I’ll have to restyle in the fall to make up for loss of foliage poor poor Juniper. They always fuck me over or maybe I always fuck them over. Every single Juniper ever, it’s a lie when people say they’re the easiest Bonsai species.. and not talking about the mallsai version either.

juniper Bonsai is rekt... rip
 
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I wired in November... I repotted 2 weeks ago. I repotted with mostly pumice and some lava /akadama .. The tips were brown on those photos and ever since my repot there has been green showing up on those once entirely brown needles.
The rule is one insult per year for conifers. That means you should not have done anything to this tree until after November of this year. Now just leave it be. Nothing but TLC for at least a year, two would be better. Just let it flush out with a lot of foliage.
 
The rule is one insult per year for conifers. That means you should not have done anything to this tree until after November of this year. Now just leave it be. Nothing but TLC for at least a year, two would be better. Just let it flush out with a lot of foliage.
I agree with that .. but the one insult per year could be for weak trees or collected trees. This one appeared to be vigorous despite the browning tips..but the strength is in the foliage not roots for junipers so that’s why I decided a good draining mix was needed so I repotted this spring instead of sitting in old nursery soil that wasn’t draining well.
 
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Personally I think you overdid it on the pruning. All I see in the photos are some patches of green and brown at the very tips. A lot of the energy stored in junipers is in the foliage and if too mush is removed along with wiring and repotting it can seriously weaken the plant.
 
Personally I think you overdid it on the pruning. All I see in the photos are some patches of green and brown at the very tips. A lot of the energy stored in junipers is in the foliage and if too mush is removed along with wiring and repotting it can seriously weaken the plant.
I barely pruned anything .. I mostly wired every branch that was on it in conscience not to remove the foliage since it’s all clumpy pads . This is the entire tree the tips that are brown are the ones at the apex of this position when it was in the nursery pot. And those brown pads the needles all but fell of as compared to this picture after wiring
 

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The rule is one insult per year for conifers.

...particularly if you are moving them from a nursery pot. I have learned over the years that it is best to repot first, doing almost nothing to the foliage except basic cleaning out of dead branches and foliage, and move to the next step in development only after the tree has fully recovered. If the tree is already established in bonsai soil, you have a little more flexibility because the recovery time after repotting is much shorter. But raking out roots and cleaning out a nursery pot-bound conifer can sometimes mean a year before you touch the tree again.
 
...particularly if you are moving them from a nursery pot. I have learned over the years that it is best to repot first, doing almost nothing to the foliage except basic cleaning out of dead branches and foliage, and move to the next step in development only after the tree has fully recovered. If the tree is already established in bonsai soil, you have a little more flexibility because the recovery time after repotting is much shorter. But raking out roots and cleaning out a nursery pot-bound conifer can sometimes mean a year before you touch the tree again.
Yeah I’m gonna just leave it and pray to Amaterasu Ōmikami that the pads recover since there is some green
 
I always fuck them over. Every single Juniper ever
I still feel the brown is from overworking branches. The branches that did not brown were not over worked.
They are easy, just follow what BN said about potting up and not pruning till after recovery, be it 1, 2 or 3 years.
If on the side of bad luck it took 2 yrs, by then you can ease into it. Your picture...
1617987228783.png
Is not of a robust ready to handle going from nursery stock to this style in one go of it "tree".

You said you had your eye on another one. Get that, let this one rest. Post a few pictures here, and we can
help you get to this amount of styling with incredible health. Whether you want to style it or pot it is up to you.
I do it either way depending on what I have in front of me.

Besides over working branches, the juniper may SHED branches as a survival mode when overly stressed.
Say you didn't overwork the branches, but this happened due to too many insults on a less than robust subject.
Then the subject may shed foliage to try to stay alive.
That said what % of root mass did you remove?
Working on nursery soil I personally remove about 60% and rake out half or more of the remainder
keeping the crown in tact (for addressing more with each repot) + ~40% of the original mass.
I do this here when the dogwoods are beginning to bloom and the growth tips are juicy and plump.
When you pinch a tip it is ripe with sticky juices and hard freezes typically a thing of the past that year.
You might!! have to cut a low branch or 2 off to pot it up, but other than that, keep the solar panels in place.


For hard pruning I have had excellent results in similar grow zone as you, doing that in July then wiring in October.
This can be done the year prior to potting up...or the year after potting up when runners are proof of...
...COLLECTED ENERGY. Like a bucking horse or steer ready to rodeo.
Potting up, November is awfully close to hard freezes for us most years, for the roots to make good recovery.
In this thread ^ you can get a feel of how much root work you can get away with as described above the year following
a hard cut back in July. I still have not reduced the foliage, but plan to this Summer then wire in Fall.

do brown tips ever revive?
As in the context of this thread, no typically not. Other reasons for brown tips like incorrect pinching, sheering, insect damage, yes
interior foliage will take over, if issues are corrected. Root issues like root rot hard to say, depends on extent of damage are correction.

I had a single branch do exactly what you have had happen here this Spring, that I wired the crap out of last Fall.
I failed to take a picture, but the remaining parts not overworked, are plumping up nicely. If you set a branch, then change your mind
and say rotate it 180º back to where it was, will do this most of the time.
EDIT: and to address another question of yours about back budding. Back budding will occur on old wood that receives Sun light
where there is strong growth otherwise. In other words, if the tree is stressed, no. If there is happy foliage and Sun light, maybe. Maybe not.
I find back buds on juniper to be slower than I have patience for, and I'm pretty patient.
 
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I still feel the brown is from overworking branches. The branches that did not brown were not over worked.
They are easy, just follow what BN said about potting up and not pruning till after recovery, be it 1, 2 or 3 years.
If on the side of bad luck it took 2 yrs, by then you can ease into it. Your picture...
View attachment 366847
Is not of a robust ready to handle going from nursery stock to this style in one go of it "tree".

You said you had your eye on another one. Get that, let this one rest. Post a few pictures here, and we can
help you get to this amount of styling with incredible health. Whether you want to style it or pot it is up to you.
I do it either way depending on what I have in front of me.

Besides over working branches, the juniper may SHED branches as a survival mode when overly stressed.
Say you didn't overwork the branches, but this happened due to too many insults on a less than robust subject.
Then the subject may shed foliage to try to stay alive.
That said what % of root mass did you remove?
Working on nursery soil I personally remove about 60% and rake out half or more of the remainder
keeping the crown in tact (for addressing more with each repot) + ~40% of the original mass.
I do this here when the dogwoods are beginning to bloom and the growth tips are juicy and plump.
When you pinch a tip it is ripe with sticky juices and hard freezes typically a thing of the past that year.
You might!! have to cut a low branch or 2 off to pot it up, but other than that, keep the solar panels in place.


For hard pruning I have had excellent results in similar grow zone as you, doing that in July then wiring in October.
This can be done the year prior to potting up...or the year after potting up when runners are proof of...
...COLLECTED ENERGY. Like a bucking horse or steer ready to rodeo.
Potting up, November is awfully close to hard freezes for us most years, for the roots to make good recovery.
In this thread ^ you can get a feel of how much root work you can get away with as described above the year following
a hard cut back in July. I still have not reduced the foliage, but plan to this Summer then wire in Fall.


As in the context of this thread, no typically not. Other reasons for brown tips like incorrect pinching, sheering, insect damage, yes
interior foliage will take over, if issues are corrected. Root issues like root rot hard to say, depends on extent of damage are correction.

I had a single branch do exactly what you have had happen here this Spring, that I wired the crap out of last Fall.
I failed to take a picture, but the remaining parts not overworked, are plumping up nicely. If you set a branch, then change your mind
and say rotate it 180º back to where it was, will do this most of the time.
EDIT: and to address another question of yours about back budding. Back budding will occur on old wood that receives Sun light
where there is strong growth otherwise. In other words, if the tree is stressed, no. If there is happy foliage and Sun light, maybe. Maybe not.
I find back buds on juniper to be slower than I have patience for, and I'm pretty patient.
Got it.. I feel like I’m being scolded lol.
don’t tell my teacher

I’m gonna pick up that other juniper pre bonsai tomorrow. I’ll keep a diary on that one. I’ll prob repot it before I do foliage work to be on the safe side. It’s still getting into the 40’s at night here for spring.
 
Got it.. I feel like I’m being scolded lol.
don’t tell my teacher
Nope it's called sharing. Taking the time to share what has worked for me.
Check that thread out I just updated the 2 projects there.
One thing that I had to change my thinking on when I hooked up here is not to try
to keep my trees show ready all the time. Not that mine are, but not to strive to keep them at their minimum but still healthy.
Have to let them gain. My caps are not to scold, but to bring attention to key points. Not yelling lol :)
But hey if you're f in them up, stop it 😄. Have a great weekend and by all means post pictures here of the other one you're getting.
Often time it's best just to set it in the Sun a year or two and feed it.
 
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