11th Floor JBPs

petegreg · Mar 6, 2016

I start this thread to ask you for some help. As I've already mentioned in other thread I am about to buy 2 JBP pre-bonsai trees. One for shohin, my choice is No. 186 for its short trunk and nice movement...and for larger tree No. 184 for its trunk or No. 1810 for its trunk movement and branch placement. Here is the offer, I look only at those for 49€:
https://bonsai-onlineshop.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pinus+thunbergii

Which two of them would you choose? It's a pity there's only one view of each plant...

sorce · Mar 6, 2016

It may take a while......but the first one looks like you could take it back to the first branch for a nice shohin...

And 1810 could make a nice literate IMO!

Pigeon free!

Sorce

Anthony · Mar 6, 2016

Peter,

I would have suggested seed and someone post you a copy of the Articles from Bonsai Today.
49 E = 490 TT $.

We can get 35 cm in about 2 or 3 years.
All you need is a few clay pots, some builder's gravel at 5 mm and a little organic something.

If you can, get a few local pines and practice on them, not the 49 E's.
Best of growing.
Good Day
Anthony

Cypress187 · Mar 6, 2016

Anthony said:
If you can, get a few local pines and practice on them, not the 49 E's.

That's what I'm doing (before i put my (conifer killing) hands on a JBP).

petegreg · Mar 6, 2016

Anthony said:
Peter,

I would have suggested seed and someone post you a copy of the Articles from Bonsai Today.
49 E = 490 TT $.

We can get 35 cm in about 2 or 3 years.
All you need is a few clay pots, some builder's gravel at 5 mm and a little organic something.

If you can, get a few local pines and practice on them, not the 49 E's.
Best of growing.
Good Day
Anthony

Thank you Anthony. I've got a few 1 and 2 year old JBP seedlings. And 2 very young corkers (Nishiki tsukatsa). They spent the winter on my balcony protected by some poly-shelf. One of them spent 2 winters in the ground...wanted to test winter resistance, but the last two winters were weird.
Also have 2 JWPs, JRP, 4 collected scots pines gaining strength before 1st styling, Watereri scots pine in training and some young container grown mugos. So I'm not completely new to pines.

All the articles mentioned and much more about pines bookmarked and printed. The Pines book next to my armchair...But disappointed with the first JBP died, I'd like to start with two raw pines and consult my access and work step by step. Maybe somebody else will find this useful,...or at least how not to.

petegreg · Mar 6, 2016

Cypress187 said:
That's what I'm doing (before i put my (conifer killing) hands on a JBP).

Why Cypress, I was told in other thread JBP is the strongest and most forgiving?

Cypress187 · Mar 6, 2016

petegreg said:
Why Cypress, I was told in other thread JBP is the strongest and most forgiving?

Yeah, and that's calculated in the price

If I can keep these Dutch-Foemina-Pines alive I will have more experience before getting the real deal with real euro's. (which i don't have).

petegreg · Mar 6, 2016

Either do I. But will quit smoking for good purpose. Half of life behind me, so it's time to make sth stupid.

Read my response to Anthony, I've already worked with pines. Tomorrow I can take a picture of my "pine" balcony, if you want.

Adair M · Mar 6, 2016

For the record, these JBP appear to be growing in very bad soil. Looks to be in rich organic, and they are probably kept too wet.

Also...

They are all in glazed pots. Traditionally, conifers are grown in unglazed pots. It doesn't matter health wise... But, it is an indicator to me about the knowledge level of the vendor. And the intended target customer.

These are all young trees. I have no idea if the prices are reasonable for your area. They all will need a Half Bare Root repot.

petegreg · Mar 7, 2016

Thank you. I've got some unglazed pots ready for these. Trully, this is the best price I could find in the circle of 1000 km. They look healthy, come from Spain, sold in Germany... Found some more expensive in similar soil with upper akadama layer, or initially styled...

I don't know why, but my balcony turns into a pine alley after this winter. Saying after this winter, because most of them spent it as shown. My deciduous trees are happy with less sun exposure.

Adair M · Mar 7, 2016

Ah. Those pines on the rail are very sparce. Let them grow some needles. Remember, needles are the food factories. Reduce the food, and the tree suffers.

The soil on those trees looks good. And I see you have cages for fertilizer.

Based upon what I see, if those are JBP, don't decandle this year. Let them grow with good fertilizer for a year, and maybe you can decandle next year.

petegreg · Mar 7, 2016

Thank you. The fertilizer baskets've been empty since the begining of the winter. I was lazy to collect them...
There're some collected (2013-2014) scots pines which are really sparse. They had long empty branches with needles only on their tips. But they seems to have some back buds so I expect their explosion this year. They will stay intact... Also there'are 2 JWPs, they are pretty fine and no JBP on this picture. I hope they'll be fine and I'll be able to share them here and tell some story. The picture was taken from a bad perspective because of the dimensions of balcony (long and narrow).
One fact I haven't mentioned yet is that I can provide them only with morning sun. If this is not enough I'll have to negotiate on their afternoon placement on W-facing balcony with its owner - my wife

Adair M · Mar 7, 2016

Pines do best in full day sun.

Ok, Scots and White pines should not be decandled.

If the Whites are reasonably full, do not fertilize until their needles have hardened off. In mid summer. Then fertilize from then, through the fall until winter. The fertilizer will make them strong next spring. The reason not to fertilize during the spring is two reasons: 1) spring fertilizer will produce long curvy needles. 2) it will produce long internodes. White pine don't backbud as readily as other pines, so we want short internodes to keep foliage close to the trunk. Branches that get long and lanky are hard to fix. Grafting is usually the only way.

Brian Van Fleet · Mar 7, 2016

Beautiful view!

Tieball · Mar 7, 2016

petegreg said:
Thank you. I've got some unglazed pots ready for these. Trully, this is the best price I could find in the circle of 1000 km. They look healthy, come from Spain, sold in Germany... Found some more expensive in similar soil with upper akadama layer, or initially styled...

I don't know why, but my balcony turns into a pine alley after this winter. Saying after this winter, because most of them spent it as shown. My deciduous trees are happy with less sun exposure.

I like that you have them securely tied down. Well done!

petegreg · Mar 7, 2016

Tieball said:
I like that you have them securely tied down. Well done!

Thank you, hmm, it was necessary here.

Leo in N E Illinois · Mar 9, 2016

Your eastern exposure is not ideal, but it looks like you are quite high up, with no other building obstructing light. This is probably bright enough for JWP, and while a bit low for JBP, it will probably work out ok. Only because with such open space that even when the sun is behind the building a lot of scattered light is coming in. And I agree, very nice view. When I lived in a Chicago high rise, I loved the views, but hated everything else about living in a tall building. But I truly loved the views. I'm ground level now.

petegreg · Mar 10, 2016

Thank you Leo for words concerning light requirements, I hope it'll be enough.

The trees were delivered today in the morning. They look very good, healthy and strong. Here are the candles like they look:

I think the trees were kept in a greenhouse and the candles are on theirs way. Didn't hesitate, did HBR repot.
Taking them out of pot, the roots looked fine:

What I did - removed the top soil carefully with a wooden stick, barerooted half of root ball and washed bare roots with water running slowly. Here is the halfway result:

Than I potted them... Here're some after pics:
I'll call this one "S":

petegreg · Mar 10, 2016

...continued

The second one is, better said will be "L":

I apologize if I uploaded too many pictures too soon.

Sorce was right saying the 2nd could make a nice shohin. Good eye, thanks. But I want one bigger so will see which of them wins the freedom of growth...

I've got two questions.
1) Aftercare - will start fertilizing in the middle of April. But what placement would be best now, morning sun or shade for a few weeks?
2) If you look at the "foliage" picture, there're 3-5 candles in the strongest zones. According to info provided by you and found on the forum they should be left intact, shouldn't they? Thank you.

Anthony · Mar 10, 2016

Peter,

Envy, Envy, Envy

And you get real candles. Our sun, climate and plant adaptation, we get 1/4 inch or less length candles on
the older trees.
Sometimes we get long candles on the 3 to 5 year old trees, but as they get older the candles get smaller and smaller.

Hopefully Sifu [ @Adair ] will chime in to educate.
Good Day
Anthony

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