Buy a tree in Japan, leave it there

[Arlithrien]

Hi folks,
I am doing some research about the Bonsai market and thought I would ask the community here to discussed some topics. Open-ended question to avoid any bias

Here is the first one.
I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

I'll break the trend. There's some ancient prunus mume specimen in Japan that I would love to own but would never do justice to maintain. I'd probably want a professional to care for it with a level of strictness and detail that the Japanese are known for. If money was no object I would consider doing this.

Bonsai in their highest form are art. Tons of people own art that they didn't make themselves. Bonsai are also plants. Tons of people pay professionals to landscape their homes. It's really not that unusual imo.

 

[Shogun610]

Yes people do own trees and keep them at the studio majority of the year only to take with them when they show. They do the same in Japan. But in my opinion it really irks me.

 

[MaciekA]

Adam Jones runs a nursery in Ibaraki named Tree House Bonsai and this idea of cultivating a tree in Japan is a service that he offers to foreigners. The difference is that it's not entirely at a distance. You can and do travel to work on your tree as an educational experience.

You can visit his nursery, source a tree, and periodically work on it (and learn) on-site, in Japan. If your intent is to eventually export it to the US, your tree gets quarantined for a 3 year period (as you continue to visit and work on it), and you can do that. If your intent is to keep it in Japan and treat it like @NaoTK 's race horse, well, they'll always accept your dollars and you'll have a very unique experience doing that too.

Yes, it will sound insane to some folks. But there are plenty of bonsai-adjacent people (some of those are here on this forum, perhaps even reading this comment) who already travel to Japan annually for bonsai anyway, and nobody bats an eye at the idea that someone travels to see Japanese bonsai shows in February. Nobody bats an eye at a lot of things that are spendy but at least this brings you closer to Japanese bonsai culture in a hands-on way if you take good advantage of it and dearly want it. Some people might dearly want it.

Speaking of @NaoTK , and relevant to the OP's question, I have to thank Nao for being the person to push me to look more closely at Japanese bonsai culture and especially Japanese bonsai information sources, many of which have no parallel anywhere else. It's really opened my eyes to how much I have to learn and experience, and I completely understand the draw of @apic92 's idea in principle because there are variations on this idea (like Adam's service) that are appealing to me. If I had the time/resources and jet lag endurance to try Adam's service ... I would absolutely try it.

 

[MaciekA]

Side note, I study with Michael Hagedorn and Andrew Robson, and they both have / have had client trees parked at their gardens, sometimes for a lengthy time. I and other students have worked on some of these client trees. Some of those clients live far, far away from Oregon. Owning and developing trees at a distance is an already-existing phenomenon not just in Japan but the US too.

 

[JudyB]

Out of curiosity, do they travel there to work on the tree, or is it more like a show horse like Bjorn described in his recent Kokofu video?

He showed Doug Paul's tree and wow, what a tree. It made me curious as to how the work was done and I remembered this thread - and lo, Doug had even been mentioned here.

The dead wood on the trunk is something else.

Couldn’t speak to this any better than the replies following your question.

 

[JackHammer]

Highly speculative and value is intangible... Sounds like a great way to launder money.

 

[JackHammer]

As somebody who imports hundreds of bonsai and bonsai material from Japan to Canada every year, this is something I have considered closely and I have been looking for appropriate material for several years.



My personal motivation comes from wanting to put a former Kokufu tree into the Montreal Botanical Garden's collection.

I have spoken to several people in Japan about this, and from what I have seen so far there is no financial incentive (in fact, there are guaranteed losses) for buying trees in Japan, paying to have them maintained for several years, paying to put them into Kokufu, and then importing them into Canada to sell here. Even if we look a the most affordable trees that have been displayed in any of the internationally-known exhibitions--so now we are talking shohin from gafu-ten or similar (think $3000USD)--the decreased maintenance fees and shipping costs (due to size of tree) are still far too large to generate much of a profit in North America from what has been offered to me so far. I cannot speak for the situation in Europe.



This service already exists in North America of course -- there are people who keep trees full time at professionals' gardens, never take them home, and visit them at a frequency ranging from often to never. My guess is that some of the people on the 'every 1-3 years' frequency might be the same people who would consider doing this in Japan? This is a very very small percentage of people doing bonsai, I would assume.

Can I buy in? Happy to pass you money for a few decent trees. What would like 3k get? Like across maybe 3 or 4 trees? Or like 2k and then you keep the rest as a service fee?

Maybe the real thing I am saying is; "I would be willing to spend some decent cash on a small number of good trees". However, i haven't been able to find these trees and the prices from bonsai nurseries are sky high. Where do people buy decent trees?!

 

[JudyB]

Where do people buy decent trees?!

Mostly from other bonsai people. Check around at clubs in your area, or check out sales pages on FB, and here. 3k will get you one nice (developed) tree in nice pot, or 2 nice trees maybe needing more development, or 3 trees that will need several years of work. Good trees are expensive. But if you want to step up your game there is nothing like having a tree like that in your flock. Makes you look at everything else a bit differently.

 

[Bosco Seitzer]

Here is the first one.
I am wondering what do you guys think about buying a tree at a Japanese bonsai garden, in Japan obvioulsy, and leave it there for the master to maintain it?

If you are incredibly wealthy with several homes/villas/yachts in different countries then naturally I would assume you would need to be a bonsai enthusiast at the highest level with a canon of historic trees with extensive show experience that would be stewarded by a consummate master of bonsai.

You seem a little... early in your career so maybe just buy a Kokofu mag and get some trees you can be proud of and show off online.

 

[vp999]

Mostly from other bonsai people. Check around at clubs in your area, or check out sales pages on FB, and here. 3k will get you one nice (developed) tree in nice pot, or 2 nice trees maybe needing more development, or 3 trees that will need several years of work. Good trees are expensive. But if you want to step up your game there is nothing like having a tree like that in your flock. Makes you look at everything else a bit differently.

I always wonder that ....People like Ryan and Bjorn and our very own Mach5 always have some extremely nice material to work it...There must be a secret bonsai society that we will never know about lol.

 

[JudyB]

I always wonder that ....People like Ryan and Bjorn and our very own Mach5 always have some extremely nice material to work it...There must be a secret bonsai society that we will never know about lol.

No secret, just right place right time, with the right pile o cash. If you work your way up, you can trade up.

 

[JudyB]

I always wonder that ....People like Ryan and Bjorn and our very own Mach5 always have some extremely nice material to work it...There must be a secret bonsai society that we will never know about lol.

Actually I was thinking about this while working on moss removal today. Perhaps there could be a sub forum here that would be like the selling forum, only a Want to Buy forum. There are a couple pages like that on FB, and anyone who posts what they are looking for and a price point never fail to get multiple interested sellers. Maybe it could work here as well. @Bonsai Nut ?

 

[vp999]

Actually I was thinking about this while working on moss removal today. Perhaps there could be a sub forum here that would be like the selling forum, only a Want to Buy forum. There are a couple pages like that on FB, and anyone who posts what they are looking for and a price point never fail to get multiple interested sellers. Maybe it could work here as well. @Bonsai Nut ?

That's a great idea Judy!

 

[Carol 83]

Actually I was thinking about this while working on moss removal today. Perhaps there could be a sub forum here that would be like the selling forum, only a Want to Buy forum. There are a couple pages like that on FB, and anyone who posts what they are looking for and a price point never fail to get multiple interested sellers. Maybe it could work here as well. @Bonsai Nut ?

I think that's a great idea! I would much prefer buying trees from members here rather than on FB. AND since I use my husband's FB account, I prefer him not always knowing if I buy something.

 

[Shogun610]

Actually I was thinking about this while working on moss removal today. Perhaps there could be a sub forum here that would be like the selling forum, only a Want to Buy forum. There are a couple pages like that on FB, and anyone who posts what they are looking for and a price point never fail to get multiple interested sellers. Maybe it could work here as well. @Bonsai Nut ?

There is a wanted to buy forum tho

 

[vp999]

There is a wanted to buy forum tho

Yup..We already have one......

 

[JudyB]

There is a wanted to buy forum tho

Well guess I'm oblivious girl, we should start using it!!!

 

[Shogun610]

Well guess I'm oblivious girl, we should start using it!!!

The only thing is whenever someone posts a wanted , replies are only for who to contact or who has x,y,z. Never a direct hey I have this send me a pm. I don’t think a lot of people like to sell their trees, I would use that forum more than Fbook because I trust people on here more.

 

[jradics]

seems like the author is describing a visit to a museum, botanical garden, or zoo but with much more cost involved. These places exist so we can enjoy their subjects as often or seldom as we wish.

 

[MaciekA]

I always wonder that ....People like Ryan and Bjorn and our very own Mach5 always have some extremely nice material to work it...There must be a secret bonsai society that we will never know about lol.

There's no secret society, but the 3 people you mentioned have very long tenure in the scene, so they've cultivated relationships with other bonsai people and are more aware of the supply chain (for yamadori, for pottery, for wire, for akadama).

Even living in what should be renamed from "Willamette Valley" to "Bonsai Valley", when I started out, I didn't muster the courage to attend local bonsai meetups, so it took me much longer to become aware of the bonsai supply chain. As a result I started with mediocre nursery stock and crappy (also wickedly expensive) options for soil suppliers.

Meanwhile, not only was there better bonsai material and supplies right under my nose that whole time, but also, there was lots of free material / supplies / tools floating around as well. So I am with @JudyB on this, connecting with other bonsai people in your region (if not necessarily your immediate neighborhood) will get you much closer to straightforward answers to all needs, whether it's a nice JBP trunk or where to find akadama or pumice.

On the other hand, some types of material or supplies are less regional, and yamadori and pre-bonsai can be like this. If your goal is to start with high value material which is also completely raw, like what Ryan, Bjorn an Sergio often work with, then you must muster the courage to reach out to collectors such as the Backcountry Boys, Randy Knight, etc. They're good people with lots of material on hand (Randy has quite a few trees at any given moment). If your goal is to start with professionally grown pre-bonsai (pre-engineered roots, some time given to trunk growth, etc), there are professional growers on this forum ( @JEads for example ) and on instagram. Find one and you quickly find the rest.