Dirk's big black pine (again)

DirkvanDreven

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No, not that bad. You could have cut much more of the bottom of the root ball off. You could also cut off the “problematic” root. Since you had a lot of fine feeder roots, the tree wouldn’t miss it.

It looks like there were a bunch of long circling roots. I hope you cut them back!

It’s planted on a mound in your growbox. The grow biz is deep, the tree should have been planted deeper, so that there is no mound.

Potting is really difficult to teach over the Internet!

I will say that when I teach the potting class, the students are amazed at how much roots can be removed!
Thanks for your reply Adair. Can I take your potting class!?
I'm so scared to cut of roots! especially pine roots. Recently repotted a bunch of young pines. Roots of those were very brittle and broke easily.
Really need to take a repotting class next year!
 

Adair M

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Thanks for your reply Adair. Can I take your potting class!?
I'm so scared to cut of roots! especially pine roots. Recently repotted a bunch of young pines. Roots of those were very brittle and broke easily.
Really need to take a repotting class next year!
Lol!!! That would be a long plane flight for you!

I suggest that you buy or rent Boon’s JBP repotting video. Go to www.bonsaiboon.com and you can find the DVDs for sale. Or, even better, you can buy the right to stream it! Those streams are very affordable!
 

Potawatomi13

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Speechless, is that alright?
As for the roots, I'm not sure if that would work.
If there are any long circling roots, maybe you could approach or threadgraft those to the base? I'm just throwing in ideas, I'm sure someone else has better ideas.
Very interesting thought;).
 
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Potawatomi13

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In event of your strange root angle of tree could be changed to bring down or wire root as one would wire branch to bring down. Or do both. Current branch structure of tree is not bad and presents good possibility of less boring more interesting looking natural tree;).
 
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Potawatomi13

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I'm so scared to cut of roots! especially pine roots. Recently repotted a bunch of young pines. Roots of those were very brittle and broke easily.
Dirk; if you see how few roots some collected(true Yamadori)pines have and survive well maybe would not be so fearful. Admit to personal weakness as well. Walter Pall is most familiar with these. Is there possibility you could meet with him;)?
 
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DirkvanDreven

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I met mr Pall a couple of times. only short courtesy exchanges.
I don't think mr, Pall collects trees himself. I do know that mr Pall gets new trees in small pots very soon after collection.
 

DirkvanDreven

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@Adair M Candles are elongating as usual, If growth this year is good, can I repot next year again, since I didn't take of to much roots? Or do I have to wait another year?
 

Adair M

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Did you get strong candle growth last year? If so, you could repot again this year and take a couple inches off the bottom. Cut straight across the bottom, then repot a little deeper so that there’s no mound at all.

Like this:

6E6309A0-3BA9-4C17-99AA-7D4F69AFA968.jpeg
 

DirkvanDreven

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The tree was decandled this summer. Budded well with lots of backbuds. Would like to repot and do root work.
Spring candles grew well and the tree did not seem to suffer from the repotting.On the other hand the tree might prefer to stay in this pot for another year?
 

0soyoung

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Alternatively, you could wait until this coming summer and repot it when the (post decandling) summer buds have started to swell/push.
 

Adair M

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Alternatively, you could wait until this coming summer and repot it when the (post decandling) summer buds have started to swell/push.
Alternatively, you could wait until this coming summer and repot it when the (post decandling) summer buds have started to swell/push.
0so, I do not recommend this. The tree is MUCH stronger in spring. At least JBP are. Part of the reason the tree survives decandling is it has a strong root system. Weakening the tree by decandling, and root pruning? It might work. But, it’s not worth the risk. Especially when I’m pretty much 100% sure it could handle a spring repotting.

I know there are those who advocate for summer repotting. But they are usually talking about Mugo or Scots. The protocol for JBP spring repotting is time tested. No need for experimenting.
 

0soyoung

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Can I do a summer repotting with root work?
Yes, indeed.
After the summer solstice all trees change their growth patterns making more auxin and carbohydrate available to grow roots. One just doesn't want to do this during growth extension because that takes a lot of water to support. So you just wait until the new buds are swelling just like they do in spring to repot a decandled JBP/JRP.
 

0soyoung

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0so, I do not recommend this.
I assumed as much.
Give it a try sometime, as I just described to Dirk.
Being very afraid, it is reasonable to assume that you won't be overly aggressive with the root work.

Roots supply water and cytokinins. Cytokinins release buds - that job has definitely been done if the summer buds are swelling/pushing like they are when one normally does spring repotting. It does take a lot of water to inflate cells to extend the candles and new needles. If one over does the root work, this process will stall.

Root growth is driven by auxin and carbohydrate. Carbs are supplied by locally stored starch and the foliage. Auxin is in the cambium/phloem pipeline, ultimately coming from the foliage and terminal buds.
I know there are those who advocate for summer repotting. But they are usually talking about Mugo or Scots. The protocol for JBP spring repotting is time tested. No need for experimenting.
Walter Pall is repotting his gazillion$$ japanese maples in the summer (before a show no less).
Time tested. No need for experimenting.
 

Adair M

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I assumed as much.
Give it a try sometime, as I just described to Dirk.
Being very afraid, it is reasonable to assume that you won't be overly aggressive with the root work.

Roots supply water and cytokinins. Cytokinins release buds - that job has definitely been done if the summer buds are swelling/pushing like they are when one normally does spring repotting. It does take a lot of water to inflate cells to extend the candles and new needles. If one over does the root work, this process will stall.

Root growth is driven by auxin and carbohydrate. Carbs are supplied by locally stored starch and the foliage. Auxin is in the cambium/phloem pipeline, ultimately coming from the foliage and terminal buds.

Walter Pall is repotting his gazillion$$ japanese maples in the summer (before a show no less).
Time tested. No need for experimenting.
0so, I have trees worth as much as Walter’s. He’s not doing radical root work when he reports for a show. I’ve done that, too. Walter is moving from one bonsai pot to another. Or from a pot to a slab. He’s taking a tree with a refined root system, moving it to another container.

Dirk, on the other hand, is trying to reduce a nursery can rootball. That’s a whole different kettle of fish!

A sure fire way to lose a Pine is to try to do too much at one time.

As I said before, why take the chance? What benefit would waiting to repot when also decandling? You say repot after the summer solstice, June 23rd or thereabouts. Dirk lives in the Netherlands. I think he would probably be decandling early June or thereabouts. The dates don’t match up!

Repot JBP early spring. Decandle early summer. Be happy! Have a beer!
 

Potawatomi13

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It needs a graft to fill a gap on the right side under the apex.
Agreed no need. Bring down foliage from above. Be creative.

"So, a half bare root repot means that one half of the rootball gets barerooted. Doesn't really matter which half, the front, or the back, or either side.
Or outer half, bottom half or all over half;).

See most recent Mirai Livestream: Repotting rootbound nursery stock. Most enlightening;).
 

Walter Pall

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I met mr Pall a couple of times. only short courtesy exchanges.
I don't think mr, Pall collects trees himself. I do know that mr Pall gets new trees in small pots very soon after collection.
I was clearly one of the first who collected wild trees in Europe forty years ago. i have collected a couple thousand trees from the wild. As far as I know there are only two people in all of America who have collected more.

And then I hardly ever show trees in exhibits. Often it is only one tree per year. I don't do bonsai to exhibit nor sell them. So a claim that I do my 'reckless' late summer repotting for shows is ridiculous.

And also the statement that I hardly do any root work when repotting in late summer is mis-information. The pictures show my big maple in the middle of August during the hottest and dryest summer on record.



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DirkvanDreven

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I was clearly one of the first who collected wild trees in Europe forty years ago. i have collected a couple thousand trees from the wild. As far as I know there are only two people in all of America who have collected more.
By no means I intended to offend you with my remark. I think I know you have lots of yamadori from Scandinavie, Serbia, and from late Mr. Kaefflein. I'm only following your Bonsai Blog the last 10 or 12 years and have seen lots of your magnificent trees. (Your pine nr 1 is still my favorite tree) saw it in person in Rating en EBA convention 2011! A recent pic would be great!
 

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