Ever seen scale growth on a procumbens?

[sorce]

Adair,Vance and I have both seen this.

Seen what?

No one has taken the plant for genetic testing.

I can't argue what y'all have seen.

I'm arguing what you are actually viewing.

I can wear a label that says employed.
Still won't be!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

You must prove what you are looking at is actually Procumbins

Dude.
I hate to do this to you but arent you the guy that thought a blue rug juniper was a procumbens?
You least of all need to comment on this topic let alone defend someone else who is also wrong.
I dont need a label to tell the difference between any juniper.
I'm going out on a limb and will say Adair doesn't either.

 

[M. Frary]

No one has taken the plant for genetic testing

No need.
We know.
Period.
Have you had a San Jose and a procumbens sitting side by side for a comparison.
Have you even seen a San Jose juniper?
Would you know what you were looking at if you did.
I have and have had both.
Big difference between the plants.

 

[M. Frary]

Whenever I see posts by him, I always think of the scene from Forrest Gump when he is done telling the story to the man and woman on the bench. The man gets up laughing, and the woman says "it's such a nice story and you tell it so well."

There are a lot of correlations between Gump and MichaelS.
But it isn't nice to talk about ones intellect or lack thereof.
But then again nobody ever accused me of being nice.

 

[sorce]

hate to do this to you but arent you the guy that thought a blue rug juniper was a procumbens

Yup. More of a typo.
But I don't even care enough to care.

In the end.

A juniper looks like a maple Anyway!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

A juniper looks like a maple Anyway

MichaelS wouldnt know the difference if you beat him over the head with them.
I know I've looked at hundreds of junipers of all kinds.
Since my life has just about all been spent working with trees I(as a hobby and a profession) I have no need of a label to tell one tree or shrub apart.
Identifying plants correctly for arborist work is a must.
I must know every plant in order how to best deal with it properly.
So being able to identify trees or shrubs on sight is a prerequisite.
I stand by everything I've said on this procumbens juniper debacle.
Hands down he is wrong in his ignorance but will never be persuaded differently.
It goes hand in hand with his climate change denials.
MichaelS doesn't really know what he talks about.

 

[just.wing.it]

I think Adair is correct about San Jose having larger leaves when juvenile.....its also coarser looking and sharper to the touch.
San Jose often has a blueish color as well, when the Procumbens are a lighter green.
Procumbens is smaller foliage and tighter growth.

Both can and do go scale.

Here are 2 pics from a landscape supplier online.
Look closely and see the differences.....and the scale foliage.....on both!

San Jose:


Procumbens:

 

[Underdog]

I don't want any part of the pissing match but, here is my procumbens nana. As labeled anyway.

 

[Cable]

Where’s Michael Dirr when you need him?

Does age matter? I have some leftover procumbens in small training pots that I’m willing to let get pot bound to see if they go scale.

 

[Adair M]

Where’s Michael Dirr when you need him?

Does age matter? I have some leftover procumbens in small training pots that I’m willing to let get pot bound to see if they go scale.

They need to get potbound for a decade!

Plant City Bonsai has some 30 year olds they’ve had in their nursery cans for 10 to 15 years. They go mostly scale.

There’s probably a lot of factors that enter into it: sunlight, humidity, potboundness, amount of water, or lack thereof, fertilizer or lack of fertilizer... who knows? The trees at Plant City can be nearly completely scale, then as soon as someone works them, repots it, then BAM! they go juvenile, back to needles.

 

[Underdog]

These came out of 3 gallon nursery cans about a year and a half ago and planted together in a shallow pot by a friend.
He gave me the trees without the pot the other day. Not pot bound but extremely dry as a bone in the desert.
Maybe that's why? I stuffed them in a box for now and flooded them. Hope they make it thru the winter.

 

[PABonsai]

Still much more likely they weren't Procumbins.

Is the implication the sellers lied and didn't sell procumbens nana? After all we know for a fact it's one of the most widely used generic bonsai species. Why would sellers lie about the species?

 

[coh]

There are a lot of correlations between Gump and MichaelS.
But it isn't nice to talk about ones intellect or lack thereof.
But then again nobody ever accused me of being nice.

I wasn't commenting on his intellect or lack thereof, but rather the way he approaches subjects. He's got his story and he tells it well, with conviction. Doesn't make it right, though. BTW, in the Gump case, the story Gump was telling was actually true, so could MS be right about procumbens? Is it possible that every "procumbens" that all of us have seen with scale foliage (and I have 2 that are labeled as procumbens that get scale foliage) is really San Jose? I kind of doubt it, but I suppose it's within the realm of possiblity. More likely though is that MS is incorrect, a concept that may be difficult for him to imagine.

As an aside, I haven't read one of his posts in months, he went on the ignore list quite a while ago. Forum life is much better that way.

 

[Cable]

They need to get potbound for a decade!

 

[sorce]

Is the implication the sellers lied and didn't sell procumbens nana? After all we know for a fact it's one of the most widely used generic bonsai species. Why would sellers lie about the species?

I think what I'm saying is the backwards version of that.....
But what people want is "Japanese Garden Juniper"....

So why not label something close with a label that sells better?

Sorce

 

[Mame-Mo]

Here are three of mine that have small examples of scale foliage. I’m not sure why this is such a contentious topic. Most times I’ve gone to a local or big box nursery I’ve seen some procumbens with some scale foliage, particularly bigger older ones (which supports Adair’s reference to old root bound material). However, my trees are young and not root bound so I really don’t known. I can’t claim any credentialed expertise, but I don’t have any reason to presume that these aren’t procumbens.

 

[Underdog]

I don't particularly like scale foliage. That's why I like Blue Star and Procumbens . I feel they look more like a real little pine tree vrs a shrub. I'll be trimming off the scale this spring. My Hinoki is all the scale I can handle.

 

[leatherback]

I don't particularly like scale foliage.

 

[Adair M]

I don't particularly like scale foliage. That's why I like Blue Star and Procumbens . I feel they look more like a real little pine tree vrs a shrub. I'll be trimming off the scale this spring. My Hinoki is all the scale I can handle.

Then work with pines.

 

[parhamr]

I have two Chinesis juniperus procumbens ‘nana’ and they both show a little scale foliage. They are not genetically novel. They are standard genetic lines propagated in the nursery trades. (Take note of where I live.)

This is a bonsai I repotted in 2018


This is a 3-gallon nursery can I picked up about a month ago



These are truly sports of scale foliage. These branches are not just “growing out” and expanding. They are a stable scale form. Additional shoots of these plants will convert to the scale form if I do not induce environmental stressors.