Hand me down J. beech----help

[JudyB]

Whatever you are doing currently is probably right, as it seems to be forming buds. I would not worry about the state of the current leaves, as they were probably damaged in the bud stage. I've seen this on my beech. I would not do any work on this tree, and be very careful with storage this winter. You might be ok. But no work, nothing - it needs to recover for a year.

 

[ABCarve]

Whatever you are doing currently is probably right, as it seems to be forming buds. I would not worry about the state of the current leaves, as they were probably damaged in the bud stage. I've seen this on my beech. I would not do any work on this tree, and be very careful with storage this winter. You might be ok. But no work, nothing - it needs to recover for a year.

I was pondering 2 years without work. Do you think it could stand to be poked at next year? There is quite a bit of chasing to do and the sooner the better. How can you tell if its ready?

 

[JudyB]

I would not do any work next year at all. You really need patience for single flush trees if they are stressed. You will be lucky if you don't loose the tree at this point, so it will need next year to make it vigorous enough to work on the following year. Just curious, what is your source of water for this tree?

 

[ABCarve]

I would not do any work next year at all. You really need patience for single flush trees if they are stressed. You will be lucky if you don't loose the tree at this point, so it will need next year to make it vigorous enough to work on the following year. Just curious, what is your source of water for this tree?

It's our well water. Never had it tested for ph, but everything else doesn't seem to mind it.

 

[GrimLore]

I doubt it is the water supply for to many reasons to mention, just that I am familiar with your area. I would once again suggest a good dose of copper fungicide between rains. I am pretty certain you will be pleased with the results.

Grimmy

 

[JudyB]

It's our well water. Never had it tested for ph, but everything else doesn't seem to mind it.

I was asking because I had an issue using my water (well water) with my beech. But mine was running thru a water softener, and once I got it straight off the well, I haven't had any other issues. But if you continue to have issues, you might want to test the water to see what the PH is.

 

[iant]

Call me paranoid because I've struggled with mites recently but is that webbing I see where the arrows are? If so you may have mites or spider mites. They can cause really anemic small growth. I'd look with a 10x loop under the leaves and see if you see any tiny clear eggs.
Ian

 

[ABCarve]

Call me paranoid because I've struggled with mites recently but is that webbing I see where the arrows are? If so you may have mites or spider mites. They can cause really anemic small growth. I'd look with a 10x loop under the leaves and see if you see any tiny clear eggs.
Ian

I am impressed!!! I looked with a 10X loop. no eggs thank goodness but there were webs. Don't think they're spider mites. Now...I could not see them in the photo on a 72 dpi screen and I could not see them on the tree itself without a loop. I really thought you were hallucinating with your arrows. Does any one else see them?? Maybe my glass need fixed!!

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I gave up long ago trying to actually see spider mites. They are just too small for my eyes. They can be in a photo, and just not be noticeable too. So instead, I learned to recognize possible mite damage and when I see it, I treat all the plants in that immediate vicinity for mites. If one plant shows symptoms, it is almost certain that many plants have at least a moderate infestation. If you don't treat all the neighbors too, a day later more mites move back onto the weak tree.

Use a pesticide labelled for mites, if the label does not list mites, false, flat, red, true, and 2 spot spider mites are all possible causes. If the label doesn't list mites it probably won't kill mites. I use Pentac WP, but any miticide can work. The "non-toxic" sprays like Safer's Soap only work if repeat applications are followed at the label recommended frequency.

Definitely treat for mites, it won't hurt. Be gentle spraying those leaves, they look fragile.

 

[ABCarve]

I gave up long ago trying to actually see spider mites. They are just too small for my eyes. They can be in a photo, and just not be noticeable too. So instead, I learned to recognize possible mite damage and when I see it, I treat all the plants in that immediate vicinity for mites. If one plant shows symptoms, it is almost certain that many plants have at least a moderate infestation. If you don't treat all the neighbors too, a day later more mites move back onto the weak tree.

Use a pesticide labelled for mites, if the label does not list mites, false, flat, red, true, and 2 spot spider mites are all possible causes. If the label doesn't list mites it probably won't kill mites. I use Pentac WP, but any miticide can work. The "non-toxic" sprays like Safer's Soap only work if repeat applications are followed at the label recommended frequency.

Definitely treat for mites, it won't hurt. Be gentle spraying those leaves, they look fragile.

iant must have x-ray vision.

 

[iant]

Your update pic when loaded fully has good resolution.... or bonsai is starting to make me insane perhaps...
I have a Korean hornbeam that your photo reminded me of. It had growth that was pretty weak or sparse for 2 seasons and all I saw was little webs between some branches here and there. I finally started treating for mites this spring and it's bounced back pretty well.
Ian

 

[JudyB]

Good eye Ian!
Not to change the convo, but I've heard that mites are species specific, and will not move from type to type, but only spread on their specialized species.

 

[iant]

Thanks Judy!
I've read that as well... but in my yard I've had chaenomeles for a few years growing out with new leaves fused together and distorted and no aphids or little worms in site and no spider mites or eggs seen with a 10 x. I bought a tall stewartia last year that this year is growing out with almost all of the new growth fused in the same way. Also a few manzanita starters I have in the middle of summer starting doing it with new growth. Remarkably similar growth pattern. I've sprayed every 2-3 weeks with rotation of Avid, Floramite, and one other I can't remember and they've all improved. I think they're eriophyid mites myself which you can only see with a microscope. I don't think they're that well studied in landscape situations with multiple species.
Ian
Back to the beech though! Nice tree... I like beeches.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have not heard that - When I have looked, if one plant is showing damage, many plants have mites also, even though they are not showing much damage.

Some individual plants will tolerate a moderate load of mites and not show any sign of damage, then one in the bunch will be stressed, say by being repotted, or was skipped once on the watering cycle. Then the mite population on the stressed plant explodes and does serious damage or kills the plant.

I've raised a collection of more than 1000 orchids for more than 30 years, and mites are a regular battle for me. Only by spraying the entire collection can I eliminate them from the collection. There are definitely plants where the mites hide out, without causing enough damage to be noticeable. You have to spray everything in the growing area to eliminate them from the growing area (indoors that is)

Outdoors mites are ubiquitous, so I guess just spraying the affected plants is enough. And new recruits will be trying to re-colonize the plant you sprayed within hours after the spray has dried. So outdoors repeat applications will be necessary in a year favorable to mites.

 

[ABCarve]

Well, I went out today and gave the collection a dose of Bayers. I've noticed webs in a number of trees. I just thought they were normal spider webs. Is there a way of visually discriminating between the two instead of spraying?

 

[iant]

What did you use? If it was Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub that's a systemic that's not active against mites. Did you use the 3 in 1 spray? That might work. Assuming they're there. It can be hard to tell.
Ian

 

[GrimLore]

Well, I went out today and gave the collection a dose of Bayers. I've noticed webs in a number of trees. I just thought they were normal spider webs. Is there a way of visually discriminating between the two instead of spraying?

The web type material from mites is more like fluff and has little or no pattern. Spiders spin webs designed to catch insects and often are very symmetrical. For the record this year is the worst I have seen Spider Mites on this side of the Poconos but closer to you in Warren PA my friends are having worse then normal infestations as well. I use Malathion with good success.

Grimmy

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Well, I went out today and gave the collection a dose of Bayers. I've noticed webs in a number of trees. I just thought they were normal spider webs. Is there a way of visually discriminating between the two instead of spraying?

I'm afraid you missed the important part of my note. The pesticide MUST be labelled for mites. Bayer Tree and Shrub - Imidacloprid is the active ingredient in Bayer Tree and Shrub, and is not effective for treating mites. Imidacloprid has even been shown to cause population explosions of spider mites and other mites in forestry applications. Bad choice. If this is the product you used you may have made matters worse. Best case you simply wasted time and money.

You must read the label, only use a miticide if you want to kill mites. Read labels, follow the label dose recomendations, follow label precautions. This is not trivial.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but these chemicals are not harmless, there are consequences to using them incorrectly. Even correct use has its risks.

 

[ABCarve]

I'm afraid you missed the important part of my note. The pesticide MUST be labelled for mites. Bayer Tree and Shrub - Imidacloprid is the active ingredient in Bayer Tree and Shrub, and is not effective for treating mites. Imidacloprid has even been shown to cause population explosions of spider mites and other mites in forestry applications. Bad choice. If this is the product you used you may have made matters worse. Best case you simply wasted time and money.

You must read the label, only use a miticide if you want to kill mites. Read labels, follow the label dose recomendations, follow label precautions. This is not trivial.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but these chemicals are not harmless, there are consequences to using them incorrectly. Even correct use has its risks.

I used the 3 in 1. The label includes mites. Is this wrong?

 

[GrimLore]

I have never had quick results with anything but Malathion on Spider Mites. One very good application works most times. I also never had success with any home brews.

Grimmy