Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Eric, your intention is good but it is also your butt on the line. Just saying. Good luck to you and hope nothing bad comes out of this.
John Naka's Bonsai Techniques 1. FREE
- Thread starter Eric Group
- Start date
Paradox
Imperial Masterpiece
For those looking to obtain copies.
I bought Techniques I and II from the American Bonsai Society about a year and a half ago. It looks like they still have II available. You get a discount if you are a member and you support a great organization if you buy from them.
I bought Techniques I and II from the American Bonsai Society about a year and a half ago. It looks like they still have II available. You get a discount if you are a member and you support a great organization if you buy from them.
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jk_lewis
Masterpiece
I'm disappointed at the attitudes so many of you show -- though not particularly surprised.
For educational purposes ONLY . . . It is an INTERNATIONAL Copyright law. Every country has signed on -- except, of course, the Chinese.
For educational purposes ONLY . . . It is an INTERNATIONAL Copyright law. Every country has signed on -- except, of course, the Chinese.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
No slippery slope. This is well-defined in intellectual property law. The author of the work owns all rights, period. There is a "fair use" statute that can be applied in some instances if you are making copies for personal use, for research, education, or review/press, and in cases where the copying is not a significant portion of the work (ie an excerpt) and does not impact the future marketability of the product.
(1) Allowed via "First Sale" right to resell products you originally bought legally (this was an important Supreme Court case from only a year ago!)
(2) Not allowed to make and give away copies.
(3) Not allowed to make and sell copies, whether or not a work is still in print.
I am not trying to browbeat anyone other than the guy who originally copied the book and posted it on the Internet.
And as far as people arguing that you can find almost anything on the Internet, for free, I am of the opinion that just because you CAN do something doesn't mean it is correct. If I want to play a computer game, it is "worth it" for me to buy it - because it is providing me with entertainment and because it is rewarding the game studio. No money = no game studio = no new games.
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Thanks for your concern- but I assure you Dario my butt is about as far from the line as it could be on this one.
Some of y'all are absolutely scary.... Read the damn book or report it to the police/ secret service/ FBI if you think they'd care... They won't.
Have fun arguing with your own circles... I thought maybe people would want to talk about THE BOOK... You know like about the pics, trees, advice... Stuff about BONSAI. Silly me. Please all you Internet lawyers have fun showing off how much you think you know. Ima go water my trees cuz it is freaking HOT outside, and John Naka says in this book to water more when it is hot- OOPS, DID I JUST BREAK THE LAW AGAIN?? LMFAO
Eric Group
Masterpiece
Cool, I have found some insane ranges of prices for his books online..
I was actually looking for a copy to purchase when I stumbled upon this evil copyright terrorism ring- just haven't found one at a reasonable price. I think my wife is going to buy Bill Valvanis' book for me for Father's Day so I will have something new that covers some more advanced techniques (and focuses on my beloved Maples), but I still want a copy of Naka's books lying around for reference...
jk_lewis
Masterpiece
Hmmm. The "ethics is dead" school of thought. I know I won't get caught, so it's all right to steal it. Must be an MBA.
KennedyMarx
Omono
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
jeanluc83
Omono
agraham
Shohin
I'd comment on this, but I'd sound like a crotchety old man who believes that mass file sharing without the artists'/creators' permission and copyright infringements are pretty much the same as stealing. Oh wait....I am a crotchety old man.
Somehow, the internet(and our "I deserve this even though I haven't done anything to earn it" culture) has convinced what seems like a whole generation(or 2) that intellectual and artistic property should be free for the taking.
Giving a hard copy, that you paid for, to someone is different than copying a hard copy for distribution.
andy
Somehow, the internet(and our "I deserve this even though I haven't done anything to earn it" culture) has convinced what seems like a whole generation(or 2) that intellectual and artistic property should be free for the taking.
Giving a hard copy, that you paid for, to someone is different than copying a hard copy for distribution.
andy
agraham
Shohin
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
...those who behave ethically are rarely concerned about breaking the law...
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
kirk@localbonsai.com
Mame
Thanks for the heads-up!
Fallen_Reality
Sapling
Copyright laws, especially US copyright laws, have allowed extensions and exemptions that hinder the idea that knowledge should be free and available to all at some point. I feel that if an author is dead and no available prints of a work are commercially available, reproduction should be allowed. But the law disagrees with this. The author and his family are no longer making money from this, so what would be the harm?
Copyright laws need to be revised in a way that makes sense. They restrict the spread of knowledge and creativity.
Copyright laws need to be revised in a way that makes sense. They restrict the spread of knowledge and creativity.
berobinson82
Omono
Technically speaking, a teacher who shows a Disney movie in his/her classroom to students is breaking copyright law. I don't perceive that teacher to be unethical, yet a law is being broken.
Rosa parks broke a law. Was she acting unethical?
Speeding to the hospital while your spouse is having a heart attack... think about it.
In some countries rape is lawful as long as you wed the victim afterwards. (Wait, are US laws the only ones that matter?)
Laws don't necessarily lead us to what is "right". I think everyone in this thread would break whatever law they had to in order to provide for their families. If that was the only option of course.
Those who break laws are not necessarily acting unethical. And those who feel their cause is ethical could give a damn about what laws are in place.
On this topic of Naka's book:
I've had that link saved for a long while. I found it while searching for a fair price for the book. I have a copy at home as I'm the club librarian but wanted it for myself. I recall almost posting a thread about it but decided it was in poor taste. To each his own I reckon.
Cheers,
B
Rosa parks broke a law. Was she acting unethical?
Speeding to the hospital while your spouse is having a heart attack... think about it.
In some countries rape is lawful as long as you wed the victim afterwards. (Wait, are US laws the only ones that matter?)
Laws don't necessarily lead us to what is "right". I think everyone in this thread would break whatever law they had to in order to provide for their families. If that was the only option of course.
Those who break laws are not necessarily acting unethical. And those who feel their cause is ethical could give a damn about what laws are in place.
On this topic of Naka's book:
I've had that link saved for a long while. I found it while searching for a fair price for the book. I have a copy at home as I'm the club librarian but wanted it for myself. I recall almost posting a thread about it but decided it was in poor taste. To each his own I reckon.
Cheers,
B
Poink88
Imperial Masterpiece
Easy to say until it is your (or your spouse, kids, or parents) work that is infringed. Think about it then tell us if it is still okay.
Also, who knows if the heirs of Naka decide to print a new batch tomorrow?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I think you are intermingling two different subjects:
(1) Copyrights as apply to dead authors or out-of-print materials: It is not for us to "feel" what is right or wrong as it relates to someone else's property. Perhaps the author wants to retract what they wrote or no longer wants the material printed for whatever reason? Perhaps the estate of a dead author is planning to release a new edition? Or a compilation of works? There are an infinite number of things a property owner MIGHT decide to do with printed work, including things they aren't even aware of today, so copyright law simply defines copyrights as being valid for a period of time. In the interim you will need permission from the property owner to make copies.
(2) Copyrights as apply to "hindering knowledge". You don't need to print and spread materials for free to spread knowledge. Copyright law specifically allows you to borrow work, to reference work, to create derivative works, to print excerpts, etc. If you have ever read a scientific paper, the reference section is often longer than the content of the paper - and numerous works are directly referenced WITHOUT breaking copyright law.
I once had a difficult time finding a scientific text that I wanted to own. It was referenced in many articles that I had read, but I could not find a copy. I went so far as to contact the author - and he expressed regret that he did not even own a copy himself; he had never gotten an author's copy from the Publisher. So yes it was inconvenient. I had two options - go to a research library and read it in situ, or wait for it to come up in a used book search and hope I didn't have to pay too much. Recently the book became public domain. There is an electronic publishing firm that specializes in printing out-of-print books that are public domain, no matter how obscure the subject matter. I copied the link and shared it with the book author. I think he used it to buy a copy... of his own book
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