Giga
Masterpiece
Actually you can collect BC through may - I have done this successfully BUT they need very good after care and it's not a 100%. Gauging by the op's skill level I wouldn't recommend this.
Just collected my first Bald Cypress, in need of some advice on potting & after-care
- Thread starter SU2
- Start date
Actually you can collect BC through may - I have done this successfully BUT they need very good after care and it's not a 100%. Gauging by the op's skill level I wouldn't recommend this.
Zach Smith
Omono
Good to know. My biggest problem with collecting BC in warm weather is the snakes. Moccasins are notoriously aggressive.
Giga
Masterpiece
I hate the mosquitoes and ticks
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
You still water every day- presumably this is because it's growing, I did put some drainage holes into mine (w/ an extremely water-retentive substrate, almost 60-70% DE) but, after it's growing, may still put a 2nd oil-pan under the first so I can do submersion if I want
Would be very interested in the specifics of your time-release regimen, like how frequently it's applied and what its #'s are! And also whether it's for growth/development or refinement
Thanks for the links will go check them out
Sorry I wasn't trying to be misleading or anything, I was aware they were anomalous for coniferous trees but didn't know it was like that (that, for all intents & purposes, I should be treating them like deciduous trees) That's good to know, I won't be conflating general coniferous-information for what my b.cypress need!!
Lol Rock!! I swear you picture me out in my garden poking at them, cursing at them, re-potting them over and over - that isn't the case! I collected it, root-pruned it, dusted it and put it in a container- if there was anything superfluous done I'm truly unaware of what it was - would like to know if I'm missing something, because now that I know how easy they are to collect I'm hoping to get several more (at least) before my time runs out - actually on that note, do you (or @Zach Smith !) happen to know how I'd know I'm 'too late' to collect? On Adamaskwhy's blog (he's in Orlando 2hrs from me, *very* similar enviro's), he says "january is bald cypress collection and re-potting month", I'm afraid I may already be about to enter the 'too late' phase and I badly want at least a few more (ideally 10+ more), am real eager to know just how late / how to tell when it's too-late to collect them!
(oh and surface roots are buried well I think, will have to go out and measure to be sure I hit 3"...I'd gotten the roots flat enough that this thing is basically sitting on the bottom of the container, eventually this thing will be able to go into a very shallow pot! If it looks like that substrate-surface is wrong though (or I don't find 3" solid) I'll add more! I put a thick layer of lava-rock-mulch on for good measure after taking the picture:
View attachment 176960
I guess my concern is that the current climate isn't that of winter, today's high is 77 (and Sun is 80deg)....still full sun? And re orientation, thanks that's good to knowAlso I won't be doting on it! It's done and won't be touched for a while now, have finished this one and am ready to go get some more if I can do it in-time, have concerns I'm going to miss the window! Hopefully I can find the time in the coming days to get a few more at least!!
And TBH I always forget about sites' internal search features! Thanks for mentioning
There is nothing scientific about my fertilizer regime, just a handful a couple small handfuls a few times a year. BC are really not all that fussy. Your tree doesn't need any fertilizer now, keep it moist and let it be.
SU2
Omono
Ok so with the time-period being close to an end I made it a priority to get back out in the swamp again this evening after work, unfortunately I got one that's bigger than I know what to do with lol so it's in a 15gal bucket (was too-late to build a box / use power-tools), I've got it root-pruned most of the way (and fully cleaned), however I'm hoping for guidance (especially @Zach Smith and @BillsBayou ) on how high I should cut this guy to be, right now it's as tall as I'd removed it from the swamp (40" from where substrate-surface will be) and I know to make a flat cut this time (and seal it) but am just unsure on height, have never dealt with such a tall piece of stock not even close (my big stock is wide not tall..) and almost think it'd make an awesome 'christmas tree' style (which would require more height if I'm understanding correctly!)
Am also hoping for advice on whether I should be cutting the current side-branches (they're snapped-off but their collars intact) flush or with concave cutters, would really like to know the answer on that one!!
Was hoping to get it into an oil-pan but was too-large and neighbors would crucify me for using power-tools after dark, will be making it a nice wide box tomorrow first thing (day off ) and hoping to know where to trunk-chop it before I containerize it!
Thanks again for all the help everybody (including those who've replied today and I haven't yet answered, literally went from work to the swamp to root-pruning to uploading pics and....now I'm about to pass out for bed, you wouldn't want to read answers I'd write now will be addressing everything w/ coffee in la manana ;D )
New guy from tonight (unlike my first one, this was a major PITA to get out, had a legitimate tap-root and was in deeper water, quite the experience!)
I can always leave the branch-collars for now but really want to make my trunk-chop ASAP and fear the last specimen got it too-low so would really love a recommendation from someone experienced here, it's a scratch shy of 3.5' tall from 'mid-flare', where I'd probably set the roots in the substrate
Am also hoping for advice on whether I should be cutting the current side-branches (they're snapped-off but their collars intact) flush or with concave cutters, would really like to know the answer on that one!!
Was hoping to get it into an oil-pan but was too-large and neighbors would crucify me for using power-tools after dark, will be making it a nice wide box tomorrow first thing (day off
) and hoping to know where to trunk-chop it before I containerize it!Thanks again for all the help everybody (including those who've replied today and I haven't yet answered, literally went from work to the swamp to root-pruning to uploading pics and....now I'm about to pass out for bed, you wouldn't want to read answers I'd write now will be addressing everything w/ coffee in la manana ;D )
New guy from tonight (unlike my first one, this was a major PITA to get out, had a legitimate tap-root and was in deeper water, quite the experience!)
I can always leave the branch-collars for now but really want to make my trunk-chop ASAP and fear the last specimen got it too-low so would really love a recommendation from someone experienced here, it's a scratch shy of 3.5' tall from 'mid-flare', where I'd probably set the roots in the substrate
Zach Smith
Omono
Chop it at about 24" from the soil surface, plan to grow it back to about 30-36". You'll be glad you did. PM me your email address and I'll send you my development guide which you'll need starting next year.
BillsBayou
Chumono
I'd like to see that development guide. You process many more trees than I do. I'll defer to your greater experience.
BillsBayou
Chumono
I left one photo in your quoted text for reference. I'd cut the tree just above the half-way point. Just above the Big W. If the tree is 40", Zach is likely on the money by saying 24".
Just make the cut flat. I never worry about putting paste on the cut. However, since you're going for a youthful "Christmas Tree" shape, go ahead and put paste on the cut. If any of my trees were to rot out down the center, I'd try to figure out how to do that on purpose more often. Saves me the trouble of drilling down the trunk.
As for "Christmas Tree", study the BC in your area. Take a look at the angle of incidence with the trunk. BCs are not Alpine trees suffering snow loads. Certainly not in Louisiana, and never on the Florida Gulf Coast. Snow-load is not the same as "Hey! We got some snow in Florida!" The branches on bald cypress come out at a slightly elevated angle, then arc out and down. The older fatter branches closer to the bottom will appear to be coming out horizontal to slightly downward. That's just something about their age. Much of the branch placement you can learn from the Japanese Formal Upright style. It makes for a very nice tree.
Gary Marchal taught me much about collecting and styling bonsai. He is gone now, but luckily, his web site is archived at the Wayback Machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170515194057/http://cajunbonsai.com/
Select the "Bonsai" link on the left of the page. There are two bald cypress bonsai you may be interested in seeing. The bald cypress on the lower right of the page has instructions on the development cuts that I still use today.
Back to "The Big W"
Zach Smith
Omono
I'll send it this evening when I get home, Bill.
RobertB
Chumono
I would also love a copy of this. PM sent.
SU2
Omono
Thanks again, cannot wait til I've got some growth to wire
And, of course, am just dying to see if my newest one makes it, think it will be the best tree in my collection!!
I've yet to have someone tell me "maybe full-sun, on a bench, in 80deg + full-sun FL days is too-much for these just-collected BC's" but my most-vigorous one is the least-lit of the whole bunch, am very likely to be sliding this new one to the right (less sun the more to the right I go down that bench, the one doing the best is ~4' to the right of the new one in the plastic tub)
SU2
Omono
So it's been a few months and I've now got two strong-growing BC's, one BC (the one in the above post ^ ) that took 3 months to just put out two shoots at its base (like a week ago, hopefully it'll bud higher-up or it's useless..), and one BC hardwood cutting that's still growing slowly but surely.. Have run into some things I'm uncertain about though:
1 - for my ~16" tall BC that's in an ~18" oil pan and growing vigorously, that just needs more space, would it be better for me to 'slip pot' it into something larger, or to place another identical oil-pan beneath it (with ~1/2" spacers to create a 1/2" gap) that can be used for 'escape roots' to sit in? Am thinking the latter is the smarter option, I have 1/2" and 3/4" styrofoam sheeting so was thinking to just use a 2nd oil-pan that *does not* have drainage, use styrofoam sheeting to allow a 1/2" tray of water (or a very loose soil-mix, DE/perlite/scoria mix?), with very minimal drainage (maybe none, though I've been thinking to just do one small central hole so I have the ability to allow/block drainage by just putting a thin sheet of rubber beneath it(edit: just found a cool idea on that: "I put a nail in the side at the bottom as a drain plug so I can pull it out and drain the water periodically or when it rains and the tray fills up." (quoting @symbiotic1)
This guy's canopy just doesn't have an adequate container-volume to keep up for optimal growth IMO:
[edited-in: I should add that this guy will require *3* waterings in a day if it's sunny, that's how fast that canopy sucks the substrate dry, if it's a hot one and I water at 9a, by 2p it's already showing it's thirsty!]
I fear the following will get some scoffs but, with such lush & full growth, I went in and set two (just two!) branches for later, I pulled my strongest top branch toward the trunk for a smoother transition later, to make its collar / growth far more vertical (it's certainly going to be the top-primary come pruning-time) as well as forcing one side branch to grow-in at a strong sideways angle...I know people generally frown on these manipulations but I've had nothing but good results doing such things to every other tree I've worked with so can't see what'd truly be wrong with this:
, but figured I should post it to be sure it's not causing any problems I'm not seeing!
2 - My larger (~4' tall) BC has several spots where there's up to 7 branches coming from the same spot on the trunk (not nearby but bumping branch-collars), I've been thinking that this is redundant and that removing some of the excess branches (the weaker ones, of course!) from these spots is smart, that there's no point in having 7 branches in 1 spot and that by removing the weaker ones (slowly; over time the idea would be to get rid of them all, removing 1 at a time here&there and gauging the 'keeper' branch's length to be sure it's growing strong) Spots like this:
(just to be clear I'm not thinking of going and pruning multiple branches at the same time, am thinking along the lines of a shoot every few days or once a week, I don't want to do anything that will slow/stutter the strong growth flushes but don't think that such minimal removals would do that, I'd be doing this process so slowly that I'd be wrapping it up closer to mid-summer, not the end of the month! The remaining shoots from these 7-shoot spots would become thicker, healthier branches by getting the resources the weaker branches at those sites were taking, seems a win-win for getting resources&light to the 'keeper' branches w/o slowing the overall root&shoot growth spurts!)
3 - I'm guessing there's no special tips here, but my best piece of stock (the one in the post above this one, w/ the large knee) did finally bud after 3 months, putting out 2 shoots at ~1-2" above the substrate (literally coming off the buttressing, not the 'true trunk'), it's nice to see it's not dead as I'd assumed but, IME, if they bud and don't start exploding w/ growth, they don't make it (I lost two BC's that were like this, they budded and grew some nubs and died - this one's got 2 little shoots that are growing bigger than nubs but still barely 2" long) I've been getting the trunk wet at every watering in hopes that helps w/ budding, have always suspected it would (seems to make sense, that a "maybe going to bud" spot would be more inclined to bud if the bark were softer!) I've applied a quarter-dose of osmocote 15-9-12 (very delayed-release pellets) to this one and to the hardwood cutting, which keeps putting out buds but not extending them much...BC's are funny trees, can't wait til this winter when I can collect them knowing all that I've learned in the past 5 months
Thanks for any thoughts on these ideas, I know they're all basically minutiae but just wanted to run them by others to see if I'm off-point! I know that 2/3 of this is "not worth caring about" to many but I've only got 2 strong BC's so I want to do everything I can to ensure optimal growth! Also FWIW I've been fertilizing the two vigorous BC's like the rest of my garden (medium//strong Osmocote 15-9-12 with supplemental instant-release, high-nitro Miracle Gro, supplemented w/ iron, epsom salts and a mineral mix, those last 3 are all in very small%'s), and have decided against any 'christmas tree' styling of BC's, am all about the flat-top style now, had a major change of taste on that and definitely am not planning to make any 'xmas tree' styled ones- this is because those are younger BC's in nature more often than not, and I want these to look old when they're done and don't think the christmas-tree style can achieve that nearly as well as flat-top!
1 - for my ~16" tall BC that's in an ~18" oil pan and growing vigorously, that just needs more space, would it be better for me to 'slip pot' it into something larger, or to place another identical oil-pan beneath it (with ~1/2" spacers to create a 1/2" gap) that can be used for 'escape roots' to sit in? Am thinking the latter is the smarter option, I have 1/2" and 3/4" styrofoam sheeting so was thinking to just use a 2nd oil-pan that *does not* have drainage, use styrofoam sheeting to allow a 1/2" tray of water (or a very loose soil-mix, DE/perlite/scoria mix?), with very minimal drainage (maybe none, though I've been thinking to just do one small central hole so I have the ability to allow/block drainage by just putting a thin sheet of rubber beneath it(edit: just found a cool idea on that: "I put a nail in the side at the bottom as a drain plug so I can pull it out and drain the water periodically or when it rains and the tray fills up." (quoting @symbiotic1)
This guy's canopy just doesn't have an adequate container-volume to keep up for optimal growth IMO:
[edited-in: I should add that this guy will require *3* waterings in a day if it's sunny, that's how fast that canopy sucks the substrate dry, if it's a hot one and I water at 9a, by 2p it's already showing it's thirsty!]
I fear the following will get some scoffs but, with such lush & full growth, I went in and set two (just two!) branches for later, I pulled my strongest top branch toward the trunk for a smoother transition later, to make its collar / growth far more vertical (it's certainly going to be the top-primary come pruning-time) as well as forcing one side branch to grow-in at a strong sideways angle...I know people generally frown on these manipulations but I've had nothing but good results doing such things to every other tree I've worked with so can't see what'd truly be wrong with this:
, but figured I should post it to be sure it's not causing any problems I'm not seeing!
2 - My larger (~4' tall) BC has several spots where there's up to 7 branches coming from the same spot on the trunk (not nearby but bumping branch-collars), I've been thinking that this is redundant and that removing some of the excess branches (the weaker ones, of course!) from these spots is smart, that there's no point in having 7 branches in 1 spot and that by removing the weaker ones (slowly; over time the idea would be to get rid of them all, removing 1 at a time here&there and gauging the 'keeper' branch's length to be sure it's growing strong) Spots like this:
(just to be clear I'm not thinking of going and pruning multiple branches at the same time, am thinking along the lines of a shoot every few days or once a week, I don't want to do anything that will slow/stutter the strong growth flushes but don't think that such minimal removals would do that, I'd be doing this process so slowly that I'd be wrapping it up closer to mid-summer, not the end of the month! The remaining shoots from these 7-shoot spots would become thicker, healthier branches by getting the resources the weaker branches at those sites were taking, seems a win-win for getting resources&light to the 'keeper' branches w/o slowing the overall root&shoot growth spurts!)
3 - I'm guessing there's no special tips here, but my best piece of stock (the one in the post above this one, w/ the large knee) did finally bud after 3 months, putting out 2 shoots at ~1-2" above the substrate (literally coming off the buttressing, not the 'true trunk'), it's nice to see it's not dead as I'd assumed but, IME, if they bud and don't start exploding w/ growth, they don't make it (I lost two BC's that were like this, they budded and grew some nubs and died - this one's got 2 little shoots that are growing bigger than nubs but still barely 2" long) I've been getting the trunk wet at every watering in hopes that helps w/ budding, have always suspected it would (seems to make sense, that a "maybe going to bud" spot would be more inclined to bud if the bark were softer!) I've applied a quarter-dose of osmocote 15-9-12 (very delayed-release pellets) to this one and to the hardwood cutting, which keeps putting out buds but not extending them much...BC's are funny trees, can't wait til this winter when I can collect them knowing all that I've learned in the past 5 months
Thanks for any thoughts on these ideas, I know they're all basically minutiae but just wanted to run them by others to see if I'm off-point! I know that 2/3 of this is "not worth caring about" to many but I've only got 2 strong BC's so I want to do everything I can to ensure optimal growth! Also FWIW I've been fertilizing the two vigorous BC's like the rest of my garden (medium//strong Osmocote 15-9-12 with supplemental instant-release, high-nitro Miracle Gro, supplemented w/ iron, epsom salts and a mineral mix, those last 3 are all in very small%'s), and have decided against any 'christmas tree' styling of BC's, am all about the flat-top style now, had a major change of taste on that and definitely am not planning to make any 'xmas tree' styled ones- this is because those are younger BC's in nature more often than not, and I want these to look old when they're done and don't think the christmas-tree style can achieve that nearly as well as flat-top!
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RichS
Mame
Looking good. Glad it finally budded
SU2
Omono
Thank you! Though I'm not sure how good a sign it is, the ones that do good seem to get an explosion of growth within days of bud-break, I've had two that broke but didn't start getting real vigorous and both just stayed small (<1" shoots or just small green protrusions) and slowly died, so real worried about this one - the two little shoots coming from the buttressing are growing daily at ~1/2 the 'normal' speed, hoping it hangs-on long enough to start budding higher!
Re the smaller, bushier one - am looking at it and thinking that re-potting entirely would be too-risky for my tastes, don't want to risk ruining 50% of my good bc's lol, so think I'm going for the 2nd oil-pan beneath its current one, am only a bit worried because the drainage on its current/original drain-pan is very minimal, like 10 holes that're maybe 4mm, just enough so I knew it'd be able to drain, however slowly; my concern with this double-pot technique here is that there's just insufficient 'space' in terms of holes between the two containers, the combined drainage-holes from the original/current container are no more than the circumference of a quarter (cumulatively, each is like 1/10th of a quarter), I guess it's better than nothing, still think it's worthwhile, if anything the tree will just start raising itself inside the original container whichd be good as I planted it a bit lower than ideal from the get-go..[edited-to-add: actually the small total-drainage-circumference of the original container may be good, if it's not allowed to grow big/fat roots in the secondary pan then I'd expect it to grow more fine roots in the top/original container which is what I'll be left with when winter/dormancy/re-potting time comes, so the lack of holes could actually be beneficial not detrimental! Am going to put a real well-draining, water-retaining mix into the 1/2-2/3" gap between the containers, w/ very minimal drainage in the new/2nd container, this should give enough room for roots to support a reallly good growing-season!]
