Maple graft scars?

Bonsai Nut

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So... rather than get into a long discussion about the value of this eBay tree, I am curious whether this graft scar will ever disappear. We've had discussions about air-layering maples in the past to resolve graft scars. Has anyone had experience with graft scars disappearing after 10 years (or longer)? How about those of you with JM in your landscapes - do noticeable scars like this ever become invisible?
 

Martin Sweeney

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Bonsainut,

I have never noticed grafting scars disappearing, I will have to look around more closely at the grafted maples in the area.

I would assume that the scar on the maple in question would get worse with time, rather than better.

Regards,
Martin
 

Bonsai Nut

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I would assume that the scar on the maple in question would get worse with time, rather than better.

Thanks Martin; I am hoping to hear from others that might have experience in this area. I am assuming that grafts will NOT disappear over time, though I honestly don't have a grafted maple that is 20+ years post-graft. I know that my citrus grafts don't disappear :) I am assuming that the only way to get a true cultivar on its own roots is via cutting or air-layer.
 

Rick Moquin

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I am assuming that the only way to get a true cultivar on its own roots is via cutting or air-layer.
... I believe you are correct. I had to go back to the A sexual propagation thread and read Brent's comments. I have several cultivars and all were grafted, including my bloodgood (landscape) which I now find odd. Having said that, the bloodgood I picked up last summer for a steal due to a broken top does not show signs of grafting, that is even more confusing.

Ooops! I almost forgot as Martin stated the grafts do get uglier over time, as they fail to grow at the same rate.
 
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irene_b

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I have not seen them get better.
Although I have seen where putting coach wrap on the area will get them barking up better with less visual disturbing tale tale signs of the grafts.
But this was only done to one of my trees.
Irene
 

bisjoe

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I have 2 Japanese Maple bonsai, one was from a seedling, another I chopped below the graft. That was kind of fun to see what I'd get, completely different leaves.

I have 4 in the garden, all grafted, and all show the same kind of scar as the one posted here, even after 12 years at 10' tall. They also tend to sprout below the grafts. Some neighbors have neglected to keep those sprouts under control and they eventually too over, growing larger than the grafted top.
 

Bill S

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Irene by coach wrap do mean some thing along the lines of taping an injured ankle?, i seem to remember a thread that showed something along those lines.
 

irene_b

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Irene by coach wrap do mean some thing along the lines of taping an injured ankle?, i seem to remember a thread that showed something along those lines.
No
Vet tape for like an injured horse.
Irene
 

Tachigi

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Greg, while graft unions are always a part of the tree. There is a nifty trick that Colin taught me that all but masks this visual eyesore.

It came about as an experiment to find away to age deciduous trunks faster giving them an aged look long before their time. In your above example this artificial aging process also will effectively mask the graft union.

In short the trunk is wrapped in wet sphagnum. The moisture in turn crackled and fissured the bark making a union all but invisible. There is obviously more to this process but in short this is a great method to to accomplish an aged look on a relatively young tree and a way to cosmetically correct/ enhance visual eyesores.
 

irene_b

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Greg, while graft unions are always a part of the tree. There is a nifty trick that Colin taught me that all but masks this visual eyesore.

It came about as an experiment to find away to age deciduous trunks faster giving them an aged look long before their time. In your above example this artificial aging process also will effectively mask the graft union.

In short the trunk is wrapped in wet sphagnum. The moisture in turn crackled and fissured the bark making a union all but invisible. There is obviously more to this process but in short this is a great method to to accomplish an aged look on a relatively young tree and a way to cosmetically correct/ enhance visual eyesores.


Now dangit Tom spit it out!
Mom
 

Tachigi

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Some how I was expecting that reply Irene ;).

If you give me a bit of time I will post this nifty little trick with some pictures.
 

Graydon

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So... rather than get into a long discussion about the value of this eBay tree, I am curious whether this graft scar will ever disappear... do noticeable scars like this ever become invisible?

Graft scares are graft scars. Given time the scar will become tough to find. On this tree however the scar is not the issue. It's the different circumferences above and below the graft. I think the question that should be asked is will that differential ever change? Opinions?
 

Rick Moquin

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Greg, while graft unions are always a part of the tree. There is a nifty trick that Colin taught me that all but masks this visual eyesore.

It came about as an experiment to find away to age deciduous trunks faster giving them an aged look long before their time. In your above example this artificial aging process also will effectively mask the graft union.

In short the trunk is wrapped in wet sphagnum. The moisture in turn crackled and fissured the bark making a union all but invisible. There is obviously more to this process but in short this is a great method to to accomplish an aged look on a relatively young tree and a way to cosmetically correct/ enhance visual eyesores.
Is this method found in his book "The art of bonsai design"? I seem to have read about this somewhere, I'm off to check the book.
 

darrellw

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It's the different circumferences above and below the graft. I think the question that should be asked is will that differential ever change? Opinions?

I have a landscape maple that was in the yard when we moved it (10 years ago). The house is 19 years old, and I assume it was planted soon after the house was built. So it is about 20 years old. It is about 20 ft tall, 6 inch diameter trunk, and there still is a visible difference in size at the graft union. I haven't taken any measurements, but I don't believe the sizes are getting any closer, in fact, the difference may be increasing. My tree is the inverse of this one, the root stock is thinner than the top.

-Darrell
 
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Greg, while graft unions are always a part of the tree. There is a nifty trick that Colin taught me that all but masks this visual eyesore.

It came about as an experiment to find away to age deciduous trunks faster giving them an aged look long before their time. In your above example this artificial aging process also will effectively mask the graft union.

In short the trunk is wrapped in wet sphagnum. The moisture in turn crackled and fissured the bark making a union all but invisible. There is obviously more to this process but in short this is a great method to to accomplish an aged look on a relatively young tree and a way to cosmetically correct/ enhance visual eyesores.

Is this method found in his book "The art of bonsai design"? I seem to have read about this somewhere, I'm off to check the book.

Yes, Colin covers this technique well in his book, "The Art of Bonsai Design" He plays on the fact that trees growing in nature with a vast micro-environment of grasses, moss, and other plants that creates a shaded, moist environment around the trunk often leads to swelling of the bark in this area.


Will
 
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Graft scares are graft scars. Given time the scar will become tough to find. On this tree however the scar is not the issue. It's the different circumferences above and below the graft. I think the question that should be asked is will that differential ever change? Opinions?

A razor blade, some vertical slashes, a moss bandage, and some time could solve at least this problem.



Will
 

Rick Moquin

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Yes, Colin covers this technique well in his book, "The Art of Bonsai Design" He plays on the fact that trees growing in nature with a vast micro-environment of grasses, moss, and other plants that creates a shaded, moist environment around the trunk often leads to swelling of the bark in this area.


Will

Thanks, I tried to peruse said book last night via the index and came up short. I knew I had read it somewhere in my research. What I have become accustomed to doing of late is copying these articles where possible and saving them as word. In doing so I always maintain the rights of the author for future reference. I do so because many links from the past are no longer available and great reference(s) has been lost in cyberspace.

In the beginning I wasn't as discriminate wrt including the author at the beginning or end of the text. Some of this material is good reference but cannot be shared. However, when time permits and where possible I edit the articles to include originating authors.
 

Rick Moquin

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Having said all that, Tom we would still very much like to hear about your technique, especially if it contains variances. I know many enthusiasts take a simple technique and find ways to improve on the results.
 

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