Mesh sided alternatives to Anderson Flats? Like larger pond baskets?

[quietobserver]

Nice paulkellum! I've been doing something similar for awhile now. I buy wire mesh baskets and line them with preen landscaping fabric. They air prune but don't dry quite as fast as a basket or anything screened. Not nearly as attractive though...

 

[Beng]

If I'm understanding right he's using landscape fabric to keep the inner pot cool and moist with soil outside it. But the roots will not grow into the second basket due to the landscape fabric. This is similar to what the Japanese do putting a shohin bonsai pot in a larger pot in the hot part of the summer. That said by doing this you loose most of the advantage of air pruning. BTW for those of you looking for black mesh sided containers look at Anderson mesh sided propagation trays they're black and probably made of uv resistant plastic.

 

[Vance Wood]

You could always just build yourself some I knocked out a bunch of these today trying get ready. for repotting time.

Gee that kind of looks like my invention. That's cool as long as you are not selling them.

 

[quietobserver]

If I'm understanding right he's using landscape fabric to keep the inner pot cool and moist with soil outside it. But the roots will not grow into the second basket due to the landscape fabric. This is similar to what the Japanese do putting a shohin bonsai pot in a larger pot in the hot part of the summer. That said by doing this you loose most of the advantage of air pruning. B for those of you looking for black mesh sided containers look at Anderson mesh sided propagation trays they're black and probably made of uv resistant plastic.

Thanks, better explanation than I gave. In the HOT months the wire mesh/fabric pot goes into a larger pot, the rest of the year it air prunes. In theory it would immediately air prune new root growth around the exterior of the container in early fall when coming out of the larger pot but after a few years and repots I've not had too many issues pruning dead circling roots when I pull them from container to repot. I have one hinoki that usually has dead roots at the perimeter but the tree doesn't appear to have issues from it. Plus a few dead exterior, circling roots just fall off when its pulled from container. It does help if you have a good sense of your local weather regarding time to double pot and time to pull the exterior pot. Ie you dont want to leave it double potted through fall during heavy root growth or you defeat the purpose of an air prune pot.

 

[Vance Wood]

Thanks, better explanation than I gave. In the HOT months the wire mesh/fabric pot goes into a larger pot, the rest of the year it air prunes. In theory it would immediately air prune new root growth around the exterior of the container in early fall when coming out of the larger pot but after a few years and repots I've not had too many issues pruning dead circling roots when I pull them from container to repot. I have one hinoki that usually has dead roots at the perimeter but the tree doesn't appear to have issues from it. Plus a few dead exterior, circling roots just fall off when its pulled from container. It does help if you have a good sense of your local weather regarding time to double pot and time to pull the exterior pot. Ie you dont want to leave it double potted through fall during heavy root growth or you defeat the purpose of an air prune pot.

I really don't understand the thinking of those of you who are using a double potting method. I understand what Nathanbs posted about growing a stubby pad on JBP but it seems to me you could do this by growing in the ground? Could someone please explain to me what you are trying to accomplish here? Do we have two or three different goals or what?

 

[Paulkellum]

Gee that kind of looks like my invention. That's cool as long as you are not selling them.

Lol never they are way to much work to make what I need for me. I do work in business you could get these made in China fairly cheep from a manufacture and resell them in USA. With one size and adjustable depth cut inventory needs. Sorry just business side offering advise.

 

[Paulkellum]

I really don't understand the thinking of those of you who are using a double potting method. I understand what Nathanbs posted about growing a stubby pad on JBP but it seems to me you could do this by growing in the ground? Could someone please explain to me what you are trying to accomplish here? Do we have two or three different goals or what?

Well it is very counter productive to double basket most do it so they don't dry out (I water every morning before work), others to keep weeds out, one guy said so you can just pull middle one out when repotting and put it in a new basket. They kinda all defeat the air pruning. The root has to get to the air to air prune it. All these spins don't help and fabric liner people are using is thick and doesn't always air prune. Iv opened grow bags all circled around.

 

[Vance Wood]

Well it is very counter productive to double basket most do it so they don't dry out (I water every morning before work), others to keep weeds out, one guy said so you can just pull middle one out when repotting and put it in a new basket. They kinda all defeat the air pruning. The root has to get to the air to air prune it. All these spins don't help and fabric liner people are using is thick and doesn't always air prune. Iv opened grow bags all circled around.

I'm glad someone truly understands the process. From my experience with them that goes back many years the argument that things dry out too fast is not true. I have found that no tree kept in these types of planters need any special treatment unless you are one of these people that thinks water is a bonsai's worst enemy and keeps their trees on the verge of drought constantly.

 

[Vance Wood]

Paul: I tried to send you a PM but I have received no response from you as receiving the PM. I'll post again here because I think it is important. In the making of your planters make sure that the screws that you use to hold your joints together are something like Deck screws, or aluminum screws. Steel screws will rust and split your planters apart a lot earlier than you might expect.

 

[Vance Wood]

Lol never they are way to much work to make what I need for me. I do work in business you could get these made in China fairly cheep from a manufacture and resell them in USA. With one size and adjustable depth cut inventory needs. Sorry just business side offering advise.

That does not surprise me and I appreciate the advise. I have thought of this many times but I am kind of stubborn about giving China much of my business.

 

[FrankP999]

What UV spray paint are you guys using on the orange ones?

By the way, I have a Vance Wood original screen sided planter that has been in service for years and still going strong.


Thanks

Frank

 

[nathanbs]

I really don't understand the thinking of those of you who are using a double potting method. I understand what Nathanbs posted about growing a stubby pad on JBP but it seems to me you could do this by growing in the ground? Could someone please explain to me what you are trying to accomplish here? Do we have two or three different goals or what?

To clarify I was stating that growing in colanders was for the benefit of superfeeding which cannot be achieved in the ground. The purpose of the second, larger colander was when the tree outgrew the first, smaller colander and instead of disturbing the roots and losing the steam the tree has built up you simply slip the smaller one into the larger one fill with soil and voila the tree keeps growing unhindered.

It seemed to me that your argument was that you would have to virtually destroy the inner colander and subsequently all of the roots in the zone near the inner colander to eventually remove the tree and my answer to that was you would cut back the roots that aggressively anyways on a JBP so whats the issue?

 

[Vance Wood]

To clarify I was stating that growing in colanders was for the benefit of superfeeding which cannot be achieved in the ground. The purpose of the second, larger colander was when the tree outgrew the first, smaller colander and instead of disturbing the roots and losing the steam the tree has built up you simply slip the smaller one into the larger one fill with soil and voila the tree keeps growing unhindered.

It seemed to me that your argument was that you would have to virtually destroy the inner colander and subsequently all of the roots in the zone near the inner colander to eventually remove the tree and my answer to that was you would cut back the roots that aggressively anyways on a JBP so whats the issue?

Not knowing for sure you understand what am trying to say and not knowing for sure what you are trying to describe, I am thinking in my mind

you have not done this yourself. I could be wrong but Your friendship means a lot more to me than being right so I am compiled to tell you to have it your way, try it for yourself and get back to me with the results.

The end result is, and this is where I have problems with your approach, when you get ready to put the tree into a shallow bonsai pot what is going to happen to the first and the smaller of the two colanders" ? Are you going to cut the tree out of the colander or are you going to sacrifice the colander and crush it to bits in order to free up the roots in it?

 

[Poink88]

To clarify I was stating that growing in colanders was for the benefit of superfeeding which cannot be achieved in the ground. The purpose of the second, larger colander was when the tree outgrew the first, smaller colander and instead of disturbing the roots and losing the steam the tree has built up you simply slip the smaller one into the larger one fill with soil and voila the tree keeps growing unhindered.

It seemed to me that your argument was that you would have to virtually destroy the inner colander and subsequently all of the roots in the zone near the inner colander to eventually remove the tree and my answer to that was you would cut back the roots that aggressively anyways on a JBP so whats the issue?

Nathan,

What is the problem IF you remove the smaller colander before you plant it in a bigger one? Root disturbance should be minimal (if the plant is ready for a bigger pot) and when the tree is ready...you just pull it out of the colander and trim as you wish. NO smaller colander to deal with which you don't have to destroy and just re-use...probably for years instead of it being inside another colander possibly being torn by roots.

 

[nathanbs]

Not knowing for sure you understand what am trying to say and not knowing for sure what you are trying to describe, I am thinking in my mind

you have not done this yourself. I could be wrong but Your friendship means a lot more to me than being right so I am compiled to tell you to have it your way, try it for yourself and get back to me with the results.

The end result is, and this is where I have problems with your approach, when you get ready to put the tree into a shallow bonsai pot what is going to happen to the first and the smaller of the two colanders" ? Are you going to cut the tree out of the colander or are you going to sacrifice the colander and crush it to bits in order to free up the roots in it?

Not trying to argue just clarifying my position. Yes there is no concern over the well being of either colander at the point that root tips are poking through larger colander.

 

[nathanbs]

Nathan,

What is the problem IF you remove the smaller colander before you plant it in a bigger one? Root disturbance should be minimal (if the plant is ready for a bigger pot) and when the tree is ready...you just pull it out of the colander and trim as you wish. NO smaller colander to deal with which you don't have to destroy and just re-use...probably for years instead of it being inside another colander possibly being torn by roots.

If you wait until the roots are poking through small colander in abundance than there will be significant harm/disturbance of those roots if you were to remove colander. They cling on to inside of colander for dear life

 

[Poink88]

If you wait until the roots are poking through small colander in abundance than there will be significant harm/disturbance of those roots if you were to remove colander. They cling on to inside of colander for dear life

IMHO, most of those roots should be dead or dying anyway and the live ones can be sacrificed w/o the tree even noticing it. Depending on the colander material, they can either choke the roots actually or as I mentioned earlier, damage the colander (lose-lose situation). Keeping it, I think is worse for the tree in the long run.

BUT, do as you wish.

 

[nathanbs]

IMHO, most of those roots should be dead or dying anyway and the live ones can be sacrificed w/o the tree even noticing it. Depending on the colander material, they can either choke the roots actually or as I mentioned earlier, damage the colander (lose-lose situation). Keeping it, I think is worse for the tree in the long run.

BUT, do as you wish.

not my technique but that of a very reputable grower of JBP in Japan. You can read about it in Bonsai Todays Masters series, Pines http://www.stonelantern.com/Pine_Bonsai_trees_book_how_to_pine_bonsai_p/b1pine.htm or catch it in a few issues of bonsai today

 

[nathanbs]

IMHO, most of those roots should be dead or dying anyway and the live ones can be sacrificed w/o the tree even noticing it. Depending on the colander material, they can either choke the roots actually or as I mentioned earlier, damage the colander (lose-lose situation). Keeping it, I think is worse for the tree in the long run.

BUT, do as you wish.

roots dont know they are being choked they do just fine if you have ever grown through an anderson flat or any other pot into the ground below

 

[Poink88]

not my technique but that of a very reputable grower of JBP in Japan. You can read about it in Bonsai Todays Masters series, Pines http://www.stonelantern.com/Pine_Bonsai_trees_book_how_to_pine_bonsai_p/b1pine.htm or catch it in a few issues of bonsai today

I have the book and have the complete set of BT magazines. (though have not read all of them yet) It will sound arrogant but I never take everything they (or anyone) says. I always probe and see if there is any flaw in it...and IN MY MIND, that is flawed. I could be wrong but I cannot accept it (based on my logic).

Again, good luck if you decide to try it yourself.