New scroll
- Thread starter Brian Underwood
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Brian Underwood
Chumono
Haha, thanks. The name is English and has been traced back to the 1500's by my grandmother. Also, it's the name of a spectacular bar/restaurant in Graton, CA.
The scroll is 28"x55", which is the top end on the size scale for my personal taste. I have only 2 trees that would work with this size of a scroll. I agree, the smaller ones are very difficult to find. If I ever need a specific scroll, I find the easiest way of getting it is having it painted by an artist you like, then having it mounted by a professional such as Jonathan Maples here on B-Nut.
The scroll is 28"x55", which is the top end on the size scale for my personal taste. I have only 2 trees that would work with this size of a scroll. I agree, the smaller ones are very difficult to find. If I ever need a specific scroll, I find the easiest way of getting it is having it painted by an artist you like, then having it mounted by a professional such as Jonathan Maples here on B-Nut.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
I'm stupid about scrolls and things like that, so I'm asking a dumb question.
What are the two things hanging down from the top of the scroll?
I like the quiet sepia tone to this.
What are the two things hanging down from the top of the scroll?
I like the quiet sepia tone to this.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
If I'm not mistaken, those are futai (or hutai), usually separate ornamental silk brocade strips that hang down, but in this case they look like they are incorporated into the kami of the scroll. I have several scrolls that have this.
I've read that the futai were originally intended as a kind of streamer to blow in the wind. That might be a load of crappola, though...
I've read that the futai were originally intended as a kind of streamer to blow in the wind. That might be a load of crappola, though...
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kakejiku
Chumono
The strips are the same cloth as the ichimonji which is the immediate cloth bordering the artwork. Usually this cloth is Kinran, which has gold filament. These strips are called 風帯 Fuutai...usually makes the scroll more formal.
Underwoodさん’ｓ Kakejiku is a Yamato Hyougu style. (Gyou no Gyou) or Semiformal/Semiformal ranked scroll...
The other scroll is probably a chakake for Tea Ceremony and could use a remount......into a Maru Hyougu format which would shorten the length by several inches.
You speaking of my scroll senior ?
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
A really nice scroll - high quality.
Personally (and I mean personally) the painting is a little too literal for my taste. I like things a little softer and more suggestive. But it's really like trying to argue Coke and Pepsi
Personally (and I mean personally) the painting is a little too literal for my taste. I like things a little softer and more suggestive. But it's really like trying to argue Coke and Pepsi
kakejiku
Chumono
From the picture it is hard to tell because there is no closeup of the jikusaki...but they are bouncing light off of the camera flash. Typically it my experience that only resins and plastics do that. Also, sometimes Japanese say generic bone, but old jikusaki are also made out of teeth from the wild boar and horn as well. Below is the picture of a 紫檀細工骨入Rosewood Crafted Bone Insert jikusaki. The camera flash bounces off the wood, but not the bone insert.
Would like to see a closeup of the painting signature and chop as well...
Brian Underwood
Chumono
B-Nut; I can definitely understand your thinking on this one being too literal. At first I thought I really like more suggestive scrolls, but when I looked at all my others they too are quite literal. Well, at least I'm consistent! In the future as I learn more, I'm sure my style of display will change and grow with me.
Kakejiku; Here are the few pics as requested. The bone seems very polished, but bone nonetheless. From my experience building guitars and using bone nuts and bridge inserts, they polish to a beautiful shine. I would love to hear any more information on the scroll you may be able to give. Thanks!
Kakejiku; Here are the few pics as requested. The bone seems very polished, but bone nonetheless. From my experience building guitars and using bone nuts and bridge inserts, they polish to a beautiful shine. I would love to hear any more information on the scroll you may be able to give. Thanks!
Attachments
kakejiku
Chumono
こんにちは
それはたぶん角軸だと思います
牛などです
最近では牛やくじらの骨を使用しているのもあります
よろしくお願いいたします
Had to clarify with Sensei first...He thinks it is probably horn, for example Cow. Lately most of these types of Jikusaki have also been made with cow or whale bones.
Based on the age though he is guessing it is probably cow horn...
My Guess on the title of the painting...and it is only a guess.
百鳥山雲溪 First character looks like the hundred symbol, 2nd Bird, 3 Mountain 4 Cloud and 5th Ravine. 5th one is definitely the hardest to make out...and the first character in the name I have almost given up...
daygan
Chumono
Regarding the title, I think it's:
First character: definitely 白, not 百 (you'll notice there's no horizontal line at the top). making it White.
Second character: 马 (horse)
Third character: 山 (mountain or hill)
Fourth character: 雪 (snow)
Fifth character: 溪 (stream)
Sixth character: 原 (original - though I'm not so certain about this one)
Seventh characer: 友 (friend)
I double checked with my friend who studied Chinese, my Chinese wife, and a Chinese employee just be certain (which of course doesn't mean I'm 100% right, but I'm still fairly certain).
First character: definitely 白, not 百 (you'll notice there's no horizontal line at the top). making it White.
Second character: 马 (horse)
Third character: 山 (mountain or hill)
Fourth character: 雪 (snow)
Fifth character: 溪 (stream)
Sixth character: 原 (original - though I'm not so certain about this one)
Seventh characer: 友 (friend)
I double checked with my friend who studied Chinese, my Chinese wife, and a Chinese employee just be certain (which of course doesn't mean I'm 100% right, but I'm still fairly certain).
kakejiku
Chumono
OK...so I have noticed that no one is willing to stick their neck out and provide help at no cost...next time I will just PM this info.
Maybe you have not checked but my wife is a Shihan rank Calligrapher, and has several students who study under her. But I usually just research her book when I am trying to confirm characters written in Gyousou.
Your typed character of Horse looks like simplified Chinese. Every time I have seen it written it looks like 馬 versus と
kakejiku
Chumono
Sorry it cut out 鳥 雲 雪
But you know I have paying customers to get back to...And now I sound like a bitter jerk...but I will leave it at that.
Here is a good Japanese proverb for everyone.
馬鹿は風邪をひけない。
I am feeling a little underGoodnight.
kakejiku
Chumono
Meant to say I am feeling a little under the weather after trying to finish an order this evening...
Brian Underwood
Chumono
Thanks for all the info guys! I always find it interesting, though to me not at all critical for my appreciation of a scroll, as I do not speak or read Chinese or Japanese. I usually simply enjoy the painting, and the quality of the scroll mounting. So to get this straight, you're saying the scroll is Chinese? Or just written in Chinese? Also, it's interesting that the roller ends are probably cow horn, but is one better than the other? I most definitely like how the bone/horn looks though.
daygan
Chumono
Yes, mine is definitely simplified Chinese. Sorry, I'm a simplified character kind of guy. The character on the scroll, of course, is not simplified Chinese, but the three experienced Chinese natives I asked who can read traditional Chinese said it's definitely a traditional "horse", not "bird" (though admitedly there are similarities, so I can understand the mix-up). The most notable difference is the mark like a western language accent mark on the top of bird which is absent on the horse character. The character on Brian's scroll doesn't have that accent mark. Anyway, I don't mean to be offensive - just pointing out what I think is more accurate information.
For reference:
Bird:
鳥
Horse:
馬
Brian, I personally can't say either way whether it's Japanese or Chinese, but since much (or most, or all?) of Japan's traditional character system was derived from Chinese characters, those characters are usually readable by readers of both Chinese and Japanese. I personally can't tell whether a text has been written in a Japanese context or a Chinese context unless it also includes some of the more uniquely Japanese writting symbols (kanji?) or if it's Chinese written in a more linguistic style as opposed to "book/title/subject" style.
Oh, and by the way, that is a truly striking painting. I really like it.
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kakejiku
Chumono
These are some of the writing styles for cloud and snow...some are strokes are omitted or combined in Semi-cursive writing.
Also, I like to use this dictionary to confirm the Japanese to English meaning.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
I recommend you cut and paste the fifth character in the title...it may mean stream in Chinese, but it is not stream in Japanese.
Also, I like to use this dictionary to confirm the Japanese to English meaning.
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1C
I recommend you cut and paste the fifth character in the title...it may mean stream in Chinese, but it is not stream in Japanese.
