Nigel saunders bonsai zone [unpopular opinion]

[Djtommy]

Nigel teaches beginners a lot of bad and counterproductive habits, particularly overly aggressive root pruning. His trees develop at a snail's pace because of this. This tree is 17 years old! Wut!

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Now I don’t really like nigel, stopped checking his youtube long time ago, never saw much of it either however. I’m don’t entirely agree with what your saying here.

from the picture, the trunk seems to have some taper, showing of age, no straight section and overall does seem to have ok ramification.
Is it a big tree well no, but I’m sure he didn’t intend to grow a big fat one but small shohin.
Could it be further along in 17 years? Perhaps sure but it’s definitely not an attempt you can laugh at. In japan you can find stuff like this too, or pines that are 10,15 years old yet less thickness then what they guys in the 6year challenge are getting already. Because it’s not grown for that purpose.
Different purpose, different techniques.
Some call it setback, maybe he exactly wants this restricted growth.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

Everyone wants or expects bonsai to be something specific and when its not, its "bad". He doesnt use wire, its all clip and grow, so naturally, his trees are not as developed, but he's fine with that. Hes about patience and enjoying his trees. Sometimes i dont feel that other bonsai artists feel that way about their trees.

 

[Mikecheck123]

Everyone wants or expects bonsai to be something specific and when its not, its "bad". He doesnt use wire, its all clip and grow, so naturally, his trees are not as developed, but he's fine with that. Hes about patience and enjoying his trees. Sometimes i dont feel that other bonsai artists feel that way about their trees.

Hey to each his own.

But what I don't like is when beginners think that you're supposed to cut off all the roots like Nigel does in every video.

 

[casun]

you created an account to tell us you hate nigel saunders? easy ignore.

 

[JoeH]

you created an account to tell us you hate nigel saunders? easy ignore.

exactly what I've been thinking. Just a troll with a hard on for Nigel.

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

You're a thousand steps ahead of some folks then!

I didn't think you were a bad person, then I may have thought you were, now I understand....ish.

Anyway, what sucks most is that folks can read this but still won't give you credit for it. Still won't treat you like a human.

The only thing worse than cookie cutter trees is cookie cutter people!

Stay you!

Sorce

Im ok with that. People are different.

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

I watch Nigels videos quite a bit. Hes a successful youtuber because its very clear that he absolutely loves what he does and that growing bonsai are his passion. People are drawn to ones that have that energy about them. Although he has a different take on bonsai then many, that doesn't make him wrong. Yes he has "bonsai" that of aloe vera, a species that most would say is ridiculous. Yes he uses clip and grow instead of wiring his trees. But the point is he loves what he does. And if you had as many trees as he does, I bet you'd be falling behind too. Bonsai is an art form and as such, each artist has his freedom to express him or herself the way they want to through their art. I personally love the natural look he has achieved with no wire. Of course art is also free to be critiqued, however I am a big believer that, if your work isn't better then the one you're heavily critiquing, I say the proof is in the pudding.
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This was a beautiful write up and those pictures are excellent. I am not refuting this mans talent or his glorious collection. I just think he can give more still you know? Do more

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

Always enjoy Nigel’s shorter videos. Some stuff he does isn’t my bag but that’s ok. I live in Florida and am not at all into tropicals. Nigel’s in the great white north and loves tropicals. I enjoy the hell out of Aussie bonsai bloke too. That guys great on camera. The word hate really shouldn’t be used so willy nilly. Then to call the man a fraud or fake on top of the hatred is really a bit to far.

Ok maybe i went too far

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

also, OP's gripe is with YouTube, as if it's YouTube has producers and showrunners selecting content and pushing it to the front of a search engine. PLEASE. YouTube Algorithms are designed to 1. show you the most popular content related to keywords you searched. Following that YouTube algorithm suggests more and more fringe content from your original search to keep you watching. Nigel is successful on an open platform like YouTube because he is more like a Bob Ross than a Mozart. He's accessible, he's kind. Peter Chen is similar. However, Nigel definitely isn't THE most popular youtube bonsai channel..... By subscriber count alone, Bonsai Empire and Peter Chen both have more subscribers. And when i search bonsai in youtube, I get a LOT of Mirai videos, because I've watched a lot of Mirai......IF OP has watched ALL of Nigels videos, YouTube assumes he likes it and keeps offerring them.

OP doesn't understand YouTube and doesn't understand why people like Nigel are necessary to the furtherment of their Artform even if they aren't world-class, winning the kokofu every year - good.

Thanks for this. As i have mentioned earlier i do infact watch and have watched all of his videos.

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

exactly what I've been thinking. Just a troll with a hard on for Nigel.

I have another thread on japanese maple cuttings that may or may not be of interest to you

 

[Bravura Bonsai]

Now I don’t really like nigel, stopped checking his youtube long time ago, never saw much of it either however. I’m don’t entirely agree with what your saying here.

from the picture, the trunk seems to have some taper, showing of age, no straight section and overall does seem to have ok ramification.
Is it a big tree well no, but I’m sure he didn’t intend to grow a big fat one but small shohin.
Could it be further along in 17 years? Perhaps sure but it’s definitely not an attempt you can laugh at. In japan you can find stuff like this too, or pines that are 10,15 years old yet less thickness then what they guys in the 6year challenge are getting already. Because it’s not grown for that purpose.
Different purpose, different techniques.
Some call it setback, maybe he exactly wants this restricted growth.

He has killed plenty of trees with his root pruning it irks me to watch. Too aggressive

 

[leatherback]

He has killed plenty of trees with his root pruning it irks me to watch. Too aggressive

I have recently seen posts of a guy killing cuttings by the dozens because this person cannot follow prooven processes. This person even posts it on youtube. irks me to read and watch. You would think youtube would be more selective on what they allow on their side.

 

[JoeH]

Looking at your videos. I noticed Nigel is aware of this thread.

 

[whofeelsitknowsit]

Nigel's cool, but if anyone dares say anything negative about Peter Chan I'll come to your house and we'll have words. That guy is a treasure.

 

[leatherback]

Looking at your videos. I noticed Nigel is aware of this thread.

well, he is a member here

 

[leatherback]

But what I don't like is when beginners think that you're supposed to cut off all the roots like Nigel does in every video.

Maybe. Yet, he has some good trees and fact is, he has a channel of pretty good quality videos and keeps bringing them out. I think that deserves respect, even though his video's are not matching my interest (Then again, I hardly ever watch online videos. so nothing special there either. Guess I have seen more of his work than of some even better known bonsai-video-makers-who-shall-not-be-named)

 

[JoeH]

well, he is a member here

Didn’t know I don’t think I’ve ever seen him post. Hi @Nigel Saunders

 

[leatherback]

Didn’t know I don’t think I’ve ever seen him post. Hi @Nigel Saunders

He has 0 posts. Probably a member to follow what is being written. As a best-selling author it is good to know what is happening in the minds of people. I at times use fora to be inspired for pieces to write on the website.

 

[JoeH]

He has 0 posts. Probably a member to follow what is being written. As a best-selling author it is good to know what is happening in the minds of people. I at times use fora to be inspired for pieces to write on the website.

Well if this thread doesn’t bring him out nothing will

 

[Ruddigger]

My whole family likes watching Nigel’s videos. We watch him cut the new growth off of his trees until there’s nothing left but the stick he started with. It’s great fun.