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Redwood Ryan

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If the pumice seems to dry out too fast try mixing in some lava and akadama in 3 equal parts followed by top dressing. I have several trees in pure pumice that I purchased that way and they don't seem very tough. I'm going to repot late this coming winter into a mix I referenced above and we'll see if there's a difference for me


I've got some crushed lava, but can't seem to find more of it anywhere.

What I'm wondering about the moss is, how will I know when to water if I've got a layer of that covering my soil?
 

nathanbs

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I've got some crushed lava, but can't seem to find more of it anywhere.

What I'm wondering about the moss is, how will I know when to water if I've got a layer of that covering my soil?

great question as I had the same myself. Ryan Neil said that when you have a whole soil system set up properly from a drainage layer at the bottom of the pot(only 3/8"-1/2" thick layer of approx 3/8" size particles)to your sifted soil(1/8"-1/4") to your top dressing, when your moss is dry your soil is dry. Common sense would cause you to believe that the soil simply dries from the top down but with a good drainage layer Ryan called it a screen door I believe meaning you have drying from both top and bottom. Additionally wherever in the pot the soil is drying it will wick the moisture from the damper areas thus regulating the moisture.
 

GrimLore

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I never leave moss on any plant. If you do I highly advise you keep it away from the base of the tree. I also find it easier to control moisture without it. I do however keep a couple baking sheets of it along with Lichens that we add temporarily when having guests or just bored...

Grimmy
 

Redwood Ryan

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great question as I had the same myself. Ryan Neil said that when you have a whole soil system set up properly from a drainage layer at the bottom of the pot(only 3/8"-1/2" thick layer of approx 3/8" size particles)to your sifted soil(1/8"-1/4") to your top dressing, when your moss is dry your soil is dry. Common sense would cause you to believe that the soil simply dries from the top down but with a good drainage layer Ryan called it a screen door I believe meaning you have drying from both top and bottom. Additionally wherever in the pot the soil is drying it will wick the moisture from the damper areas thus regulating the moisture.


Thanks! That makes perfect sense. I've read about how people add larger sized lava rock to the bottom of their pots, and it seems to act well as a drainage layer.
 

nathanbs

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I never leave moss on any plant. If you do I highly advise you keep it away from the base of the tree. I also find it easier to control moisture without it. I do however keep a couple baking sheets of it along with Lichens that we add temporarily when having guests or just bored...

Grimmy

Please note this is not for exhibition purposes. This is for horticultural reasons. The moss you reference has dirt underneath it which impedes water flow and air circulation. Furthermore one sheet of moss isn't typically appropriate for display anyways as differences in color and texture are necessary to be at the top of your moss game ;) The majority of nurseries in Japan use a sphagnum moss top dressing on deciduous and tropical trees and on conifers when the roots are near the surface and like I mentioned I learned this from Ryan Neil so take it for what its worth. In Japan they meticulously scrub the trunks to remove moss and algae multiple times a year so I dont think its a real issue after that. Additionally when done as a top dressing it forms a sort of carpet of moss that can literally be removed in one piece. It doesnt really start blending into the tree or the roots for me but perhaps thats because i dont keep it super wet.
 

Redwood Ryan

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Would the sphagnum moss on top of the soil provide anything in terms of adding nutrients to the soil each watering? Or would it be solely for the purpose of keeping the soil wet longer. If it doesn't add any nutrients, I'd just add a layer of Osmocote on the pumice, then adding the moss on top of that.
 

Redwood Ryan

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I've finally realized just how organic the pre-bagged mix I get from Meehans is heavily organic, one would say too organic. So here shortly I'll be repotting my big microcarpa into a mostly pumice, small amount of lava rock, small amount (very small) of sifted bark chips. We'll see how the tree responds...

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nathanbs

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Would the sphagnum moss on top of the soil provide anything in terms of adding nutrients to the soil each watering? Or would it be solely for the purpose of keeping the soil wet longer. If it doesn't add any nutrients, I'd just add a layer of Osmocote on the pumice, then adding the moss on top of that.

not sure sorry.
 

Redwood Ryan

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Repotted into some pumice and ready to grow.
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ericN

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Hi Ryan,

Since your moving your trees indoors, you should cutback fertilizer especially oscmote (too much nitrogen). IMO, the transfer from outdoor to indoor lights in combination with too much fertilizer will promote fast growing long internode branches. Always remember that you get back budding from those internodes so try to get them growing as short as possible.

Hope that helps
Eric
 

Redwood Ryan

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Hi Ryan,

Since your moving your trees indoors, you should cutback fertilizer especially oscmote (too much nitrogen). IMO, the transfer from outdoor to indoor lights in combination with too much fertilizer will promote fast growing long internode branches. Always remember that you get back budding from those internodes so try to get them growing as short as possible.

Hope that helps
Eric


Hi Eric,


Thanks! That's something I've always wondered, about if I should cut back fert. or not when I move them indoors. This tree has got some ridiculously long internodes, which is something I've been working on for several months now. It's just a slow process.
 

GrimLore

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We will be bringing in all of the tropical plants this weekend. We give them nothing but bottled spring water all winter buffered with a very small amount of water soluble fertilizer every 20 days. We are inorganic and that amount is far less then when outdoors which is 5 times the recommended every ten days. The bottled water is just to reduce the calcium deposits we clean off of everything before they come inside.
 

ericN

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Hi Eric,


Thanks! That's something I've always wondered, about if I should cut back fert. or not when I move them indoors. This tree has got some ridiculously long internodes, which is something I've been working on for several months now. It's just a slow process.

Hi Ryan,

To control the internode growth, this is what I have been doing for the past 7-8 years of growing exclusively indoors. (This is the result of a lot of trial, tweaking, observation and most importantly tips and experience from other experienced growers.)

1. I fertilize almost once a week and every other week or two in winter.
2. I use two kinds of fertilizer, miracle gro (1/2 strength) and dyna gro 'bonsai pro'. I
alternate this two and if I notice some long shoots growing, I flush my pots and
stop fertilizing with miracle gro for at least two fertilizing cycles.
3. I water twice a week, fertilize in first watering and then after 3-4 days flush the pots for
the second watering. (Trees in regular clay pots only get watered once a week)
4. On fertilizing days, I water first, then fertilize after 15 min.
5. When watering, I water thoroughly and liberally, including leaves and branches. Flushing
the pots with ,lots and lots of water.

Also, this fertilizing regimen is being used on a very granular soil mix of about 85-90% lavarock and 15-10% pine bark mix with granules of about 1/4"-3/8" in small bonsai pots. This mix is very airy and dry really fast which promotes really good root growth. ( In my observation, ficus do not like wet feet and grows better when the soil is allowed to dry before watering again.)

Hope that helps
Eric
 

michaelj

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I use a mix (well not so much a mix) of 100% pumice on my trees. In order to keep the top part from drying out on the hot days i shred up some dried sphagnum moss, soak it for a few hours then flatten some into my hand removing much of the moisture and slap this onto the soil surface, pressing it down as i go.

I use 100% pumice or 100% DE on all of my collected materials, and I've only used sphagnum moss on the surface when we have very hot dry 95+ days. So far, so good on about 150 trees.
 

Redwood Ryan

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Hi Ryan,

To control the internode growth, this is what I have been doing for the past 7-8 years of growing exclusively indoors. (This is the result of a lot of trial, tweaking, observation and most importantly tips and experience from other experienced growers.)

1. I fertilize almost once a week and every other week or two in winter.
2. I use two kinds of fertilizer, miracle gro (1/2 strength) and dyna gro 'bonsai pro'. I
alternate this two and if I notice some long shoots growing, I flush my pots and
stop fertilizing with miracle gro for at least two fertilizing cycles.
3. I water twice a week, fertilize in first watering and then after 3-4 days flush the pots for
the second watering. (Trees in regular clay pots only get watered once a week)
4. On fertilizing days, I water first, then fertilize after 15 min.
5. When watering, I water thoroughly and liberally, including leaves and branches. Flushing
the pots with ,lots and lots of water.

Also, this fertilizing regimen is being used on a very granular soil mix of about 85-90% lavarock and 15-10% pine bark mix with granules of about 1/4"-3/8" in small bonsai pots. This mix is very airy and dry really fast which promotes really good root growth. ( In my observation, ficus do not like wet feet and grows better when the soil is allowed to dry before watering again.)

Hope that helps
Eric


THIS. Great Eric, that helps immensely! Interesting that you use Miracle Gro, it's something I've thought about for a while now. I assume it's the kind you mix into water, and not the granules? I'll have a look and see if I can find Dyna Gro as well. Something tells me if it's fertilizer made for bonsai, it'll be expensive ;)

I've actually repotted most of my Ficus into a pure, only pumice, mix, so we'll see how they respond. Soil dries out quickly, and water passes right through. I hope I can get some nice root growth.

What sucks is that I made all of those fertilizer cakes, and now, with my high humidity setup, I can't use them as they mold too quickly. Sigh :rolleyes:
 

Redwood Ryan

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They should keep until next year when your trees go outside again...I used some up this past summer that were at least 5 years old.:eek:


LOL very true! I put them in a baggie, I just couldn't stand the smell of them anymore...
 

MidMichBonsai

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THIS. Great Eric, that helps immensely! Interesting that you use Miracle Gro, it's something I've thought about for a while now. I assume it's the kind you mix into water, and not the granules? I'll have a look and see if I can find Dyna Gro as well. Something tells me if it's fertilizer made for bonsai, it'll be expensive ;)

I've actually repotted most of my Ficus into a pure, only pumice, mix, so we'll see how they respond. Soil dries out quickly, and water passes right through. I hope I can get some nice root growth.

What sucks is that I made all of those fertilizer cakes, and now, with my high humidity setup, I can't use them as they mold too quickly. Sigh :rolleyes:

Good news. Bonsai pro is not that expensive. It comes in an 8 oz. container of highly concentrated fertilizer that mixes 1/4 tsp. to 1 gal. of water. At this rate it lasts a long time. I use this for all of my indoor trees because the organic is too stinky and, in my climate, they have to be indoors longer than they can be outdoors. :( I am pleased with the result. It is a 7-9-5 fert. The link is below:

http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Pro_Fertilizer_795_8oz_p/orbonsai.htm
 

GrimLore

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KennedyMarx

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Good news. Bonsai pro is not that expensive. It comes in an 8 oz. container of highly concentrated fertilizer that mixes 1/4 tsp. to 1 gal. of water. At this rate it lasts a long time. I use this for all of my indoor trees because the organic is too stinky and, in my climate, they have to be indoors longer than they can be outdoors. :( I am pleased with the result. It is a 7-9-5 fert. The link is below:

http://www.stonelantern.com/Bonsai_Pro_Fertilizer_795_8oz_p/orbonsai.htm

I have a feeling that it's a rebadged/rebranded version of Dyna-Gro 7-9-5:

http://www.dyna-gro.com/795.htm

I could be wrong though.
 
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