People say what you can and can’t do to deciduous trees. Here’s photos.

[Trenthany]

I hate to burst your bubble, this this is not even a remotely original idea. Deciduous bonsai with deadwood.

Never thought it was, but most people don’t do it and even in this forum I’ve seen it discouraged if not disparaged multiple times.

The point of the post was NOT to say deciduous trees should have deadwood, but instead to say that “flaws” in your tree aren’t necessarily flaws.

 

[BobbyLane]

Anybody remember Andy Rutledge and his webbook, Artistic Foundations of Bonsai Design? The internet web link is no longer valid. Anyway, Rutledge did a fantastic job breaking down the different types of bonsai- not styles, mind you- and it was far and away my favorite read on why we style trees in a particular way.

i read that ages ago. can't find anymore of his flickr links or his stuff on the old ibc. he had some pretty cool trees though.

 

[penumbra]

Anybody remember Andy Rutledge and his webbook, Artistic Foundations of Bonsai Design?

So this was never published in hard copy?
I don't have the patience for web books. I can't even do kindle.

 

[Trenthany]

"Has anyone done a natural spreading to the ground of a cluster? Does anyone know of one? This is the image that’s anti-bonsai that I want to miniaturize. I love live oaks like this!"

i didnt want to clog Markeys threads so answering your question here


you can find trees like this all over. i saw Will baddely attempt this with an English elm, it had a very thick low branch that he purposely broke so it laid flat on the soil, scraped the bottom side of it to encourage it to root, like what happens in nature, here's an example

you can see where some type of trauma has cause this branch to split from the trunk its still live and growing looks a little weak though, probably not the best example
IMG_4656 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_4658 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

this is an oak tree in the isle of wight called the dragon tree, interesting story behind it

Dragon Tree, Brighstone, Isle of Wight
With its huge snaking boughs, the Dragon Tree of Brighstone is a sight to behold. One massive limb forms a bridge over the Buddle Brook below, which used to power the nearby Brighstone mill until it closed in the 1960s.

It’s thought the oak took its unique shape after it was blown down in a storm, but, still supported by its existing branches, managed to re-root.

Local legend, however, holds that the tree was once a dragon that terrorised the locals. A knight fought the beast. When he struck the fatal blow, the dragon turned to wood.


if you can get hold of a few bits of yamadori, then anything is possible tbh. i think it will be difficult to take certain features from these trees growing from seed though.

I very much doubt I will have the skill to attempt anything close to the dragon tree anytime soon! Lol. Maybe in 50 years. I’m thinking more simple spreading live oak cluster. 3-5 trunks arcing out to rest on the ground trunks almost merged into one. Branching and canopy forming a spotty dome. That’s what I haven’t seen done as bonsai. I love seeing them in the wild.

 

[Trenthany]

I appreciate what you are saying but thousands of others have said it before. You are not breaking new ground.
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I am weary of the thread which is beginning to resemble a re-make of a classic movie.
Take a deep breath and slow down.
Tortoise beats the hare.

I apologize if you find me tiresome but I’m just making a simple point specific to deciduous trees and the approach I’ve seen to flaws and damage taken in almost every video and description I’ve read. It’s not every last one obviously and you can find examples of deadwood or hollows being used but it’s far from the mainstream opinion. I feel a simple post pointing out that flaws aren’t necessarily a problem in bonsai, but can be a focal point. Especially when people go out of their way to create artificial foci in other species sometimes is worth mentioning. That was the point of the original post.

 

[penumbra]

I apologize if you find me tiresome but I’m just making a simple point specific to deciduous trees and the approach I’ve seen to flaws and damage taken in almost every video and description I’ve read. It’s not every last one obviously and you can find examples of deadwood or hollows being used but it’s far from the mainstream opinion. I feel a simple post pointing out that flaws aren’t necessarily a problem in bonsai, but can be a focal point. Especially when people go out of their way to create artificial foci in other species sometimes is worth mentioning. That was the point of the original post.

I understand what you are saying but nearly everyone knows that and has heard it all before. If you think this stuff is new, take a deep breath and slow down. It is all out there and has been since the very beginning of what we call bonsai.
If you are not finding it .... you will.

 

[Trenthany]

I understand what you are saying but nearly everyone knows that and has heard it all before. If you think this stuff is new, take a deep breath and slow down. It is all out there and has been since the very beginning of what we call bonsai.
If you are not finding it .... you will.

Fair enough. I’m sure it is. I’m definitely not seeing yet though lol. I research l more about bonsai every day than I do almost anything else and while that doesn’t mean much to you, in context it means probably 6-8 hours of my day are taken up learning about bonsai. I might be a reading/watching a bit much. I can’t tell you how many threads I’ve read start to finish since I joined, much less since I found the forum years ago.

 

[leatherback]

Deadwood and scars on bonsai?

Here are some of mine. Not the best trees, but nice enough.
With hoolows and deadwood. Not because it happens in nature. But because it happens in the process. I guess most people have a few trees with off lumps of deadwood or a hollow here and there.

 

[penumbra]

Fair enough. I’m sure it is. I’m definitely not seeing yet though lol. I research l more about bonsai every day than I do almost anything else and while that doesn’t mean much to you, in context it means probably 6-8 hours of my day are taken up learning about bonsai. I might be a reading/watching a bit much. I can’t tell you how many threads I’ve read start to finish since I joined, much less since I found the forum years ago.

Been there, done that, in days long before the internet. Still, I dream in bonsai.
But there is no rush. In fact it is counter intuitive when dealing with something that is constantly in flux.
Take it easy and it will come more easily.
One lesson age has taught me is to listen more than I talk.
Yet still I talk too much.
I too am a work in process.

 

[BonjourBonsai]

Here's a really interesting article on the architecture of trees and how their genes drive their shape.

It kind of makes me think that there are biological rules that we should emulate when designing a tree.

Bent into shape: The rules of tree form

How do trees find their sense of direction as they grow? Researchers are getting to the root — and the branches — of how the grandest of plants develop.

www.knowablemagazine.org

 

[Trenthany]

Been there, done that, in days long before the internet. Still, I dream in bonsai.
But there is no rush. In fact it is counter intuitive when dealing with something that is constantly in flux.
Take it easy and it will come more easily.
One lesson age has taught me is to listen more than I talk.
Yet still I talk too much.
I too am a work in process.

We all are my friend. It’s funny I can be patient about trees but not people. Lmao

 

[Trenthany]

Here's a really interesting article on the architecture of trees and how their genes drive their shape.

It kind of makes me think that there are biological rules that we should emulate when designing a tree.

Bent into shape: The rules of tree form

How do trees find their sense of direction as they grow? Researchers are getting to the root — and the branches — of how the grandest of plants develop.

www.knowablemagazine.org

Cool article!

 

[Ollie]

Interesting discussion. Check out this very un-bonsai tree in Leeds, UK!

 

[BobbyLane]

I very much doubt I will have the skill to attempt anything close to the dragon tree anytime soon! Lol. Maybe in 50 years. I’m thinking more simple spreading live oak cluster. 3-5 trunks arcing out to rest on the ground trunks almost merged into one. Branching and canopy forming a spotty dome. That’s what I haven’t seen done as bonsai. I love seeing them in the wild.

so essentially youre talking about a clump style. should be fairly easy to do if you acquire material where the trunks/limbs are still young enough to bend where you want them to be, heavier branches might still come down with guy wire. some sort of raft even. as i said, if you can get hold of some yamadori material. even a suckering shrubby type plant is a good candidate. arent you a bit limited for deciduous material in Florida?

 

[Trenthany]

W

so essentially youre talking about a clump style. should be fairly easy to do if you acquire material where the trunks/limbs are still young enough to bend where you want them to be, heavier branches might still come down with guy wire. some sort of raft even. as i said, if you can get hold of some yamadori material. even a suckering shrubby type plant is a good candidate. arent you a bit limited for deciduous material in Florida?

Everything not tropical is deciduous it seems lol. We have a decent variety but not as much as say there northeast, north Florida and Georgia even have a lot more variety than I get. For example I couldn’t ID a native ash tree. They’re usually shrub sized down here lol. This one is shrub shaped to be fair but it is clearly a tree and sadly not good Yamadori. We are extremely limited for wild conifers but we actually do have quite a few deciduous trees... just with a strange appearance typically it seems. . Thank you for talking about my odd idea of a miniature tree like it’s normal. Yes clump style is exactly what it is like and it will arc all the way almost to the ground. Almost never rooting the branch because bark is so thick and tree movement keeps it down. I was hoping to run to the ones I love but no luck today. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[penumbra]

I can be patient about trees but not people.

Trees are better listeners.

 

[Trenthany]

Trees are better listeners.

1,000,000%

 

[Nidhugir]

I see your point @Trenthany , and feel the same about trees.
I couldn't care less about some Japanese rules about looks.
If a tree speaks to my senses and soul I listen and thats how I go about doing my things.
I don't even like to use the japanese name for a tree in a pot.

Here is a Fagus Sylvatica I will dig up later in fall.
I will do some carving in two years time on the trunk to see if we (Tree and me) can make it more like the old tree I used to climb when I was a child,
Because that's the feeling the tree ewoked in me when I saw it for the first time.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Not saying it does. I was just pointing out that in nature everything I’ve found disparages the things I’ve pointed out. Scars and damage are just as much a part of deciduous trees as coniferous. One of my dream trees is a live oak cluster done with the branches out to the ground. In a complete 360° circle. It goes against so many things I’ve heard people here critique each other’s trees on but I want to see it. It would be one of my top 3 trees replicated in miniature. I think it will be beautiful, not because it’s different, but because a natural live oak spreading looks beautiful.

URO on deciduous is a real thing...look it up. One of my favorite features. Some deadwood is soft, so it is short lived on a deciduous tree many state. But, find what speaks to you...and embrace it.

 

[Trenthany]

I see your point @Trenthany , and feel the same about trees.
I couldn't care less about some Japanese rules about looks.
If a tree speaks to my senses and soul I listen and thats how I go about doing my things.
I don't even like to use the japanese name for a tree in a pot.

Here is a Fagus Sylvatica I will dig up later in fall.
I will do some carving in two years time on the trunk to see if we (Tree and me) can make it more like the old tree I used to climb when I was a child,
Because that's the feeling the tree ewoked in me when I saw it for the first time.

View attachment 315205View attachment 315206

Seeing others live oaks has inspired in me to try and do one with a miniature tree fort like I had as kid!