Poncirus trifoliata or Flying Dragon for Bonsai?

cbroad

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Sorry to bump an old post but I have considered it since seeing this plant years ago... My landlord has so many unique plants on his property and this is one of them. I think I'll try and take some air layers. Have you had a chance to try one yet?

-cbroad
 

0soyoung

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I think the Flying Dragon is a fun plant to have in a pot. I'd be surprised to ever see one in a bonsai show, but that isn't the criteria by which I enjoy this hobby. Mine has already completed its nice show of small white blossoms for this year and is growing vigorously.
 

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garywood

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AHHH Dario, did you know that PT was the original razor wire for perimeter defense? Confederate forces during the Civil War used these around breastworks. Wear Kevlar gloves ;)
 

Poink88

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Sorry to bump an old post but I have considered it since seeing this plant years ago... My landlord has so many unique plants on his property and this is one of them. I think I'll try and take some air layers. Have you had a chance to try one yet?

-cbroad
If you are asking me, I did not.

Good luck with the airlayer project. BTW, they are supposed to propagate via cuttings as well. :)
 

cbroad

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I think the Flying Dragon is a fun plant to have in a pot. I'd be surprised to ever see one in a bonsai show, but that isn't the criteria by which I enjoy this hobby. Mine has already completed its nice show of small white blossoms for this year and is growing vigorously.

Nice plant, I love the striped trunks on Poncirus. I really like the pot too. Thanks for the pic!

-cbroad
 

cbroad

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Thanks Poink, I've been slacking the last couple of years with my plants and bonsai in general. I'm really feeling enthusiastic this spring and want to do some fun, advanced stuff like taking an air layer (never have been successful with those). I trunk chopped an 8 foot trident already and took about 100 cuttings off it. The cuttings were probably out of season but I didn't really have a choice i guess, just hoping the chop survives, and the back ups... I probably will take some cuttings off the Poncirus too.

-cbroad
 

RKatzin

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I've had this Poncirus almost ten years and it was about fifteen to twenty when I got it from a friend who grew it from a tube start.

The tree was almost twice the volume, but right before I got the tree a whole side got broken off. The small straight limb to the left is what I've been growing to replace the missing half. The tree suckers alot from the base of the trunk and I found these make good cuttings. I've never had one cutting from the branches take.
 

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Poink88

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My wife saw this thread last night and encouraged me to try one with a caveat that it has to stay relatively small (controlled). :D

Problem is that the nice ones in my local nursery are all gone. They have nice (all approximate) 4 inch base, 6 feet tall trees in 10 gallons before. I guess I missed out.
 

Poink88

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I think the Flying Dragon is a fun plant to have in a pot. I'd be surprised to ever see one in a bonsai show, but that isn't the criteria by which I enjoy this hobby. Mine has already completed its nice show of small white blossoms for this year and is growing vigorously.
I've had this Poncirus almost ten years and it was about fifteen to twenty when I got it from a friend who grew it from a tube start.

The tree was almost twice the volume, but right before I got the tree a whole side got broken off. The small straight limb to the left is what I've been growing to replace the missing half. The tree suckers alot from the base of the trunk and I found these make good cuttings. I've never had one cutting from the branches take.

Very nice color and contorting you got there.

How does this tree respond to root work? How well does it back bud? Any tips appreciated. Thanks!
 

RKatzin

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Hi Dario, When I got this tree, it had been backed over and half the tree broken off. Then pried out of the ground with a shovel and brought 150mi in a bucket bare root.

I was pretty sure it was a goner and having no experience with any citrus I didn't know if I could bring it around. As far a root work I'd say that's a worst case senerio, but come around it did. I let it run on for a few years and have repotted three times without incident.

The thing to watch on citrus is your prunning. I do not use my concave cutters, now wait, I do use them, but do not cut flush with the branch and make a concave cut. Citrus take a long time to heal over if you break the skin. If you look at the base of each stem you will see that it has a small swollen collar there. You have to leave the collar and the tree will heal the cut.

I have not done any wiring as yet, but have relied on directional prunning to direct growth. That's a joke with this tree! It twists and turns all on its own and you just try to keep up. New growth comes out straight one season and the next it has a big crook in it.

If you look at a branch and those nasty thorns. Right at the base of the thorns is where your new growth will emerge. Spring trimming of last seasons shoots seems to work best as I've had some die back over winter from later trimming.

The tree will make tons of basal shoots and these are what I take for propagation. I break them off as a heal cutting and down that low the tree heals the holes made.(Basal dominant?) I seen cutting take two seasons to begin to make leaf, could be my methods need improving.

I've been focused on growing back the other half of the tree. It took a couple of years to get a branch to pop where I wanted. It came out straight and strong, but now it's beginning to contort. I'm going for a flat-top African style tree.

In all accounts it seems to be a fairly indestructable tree. She bites and it stings so where your gloves!:D
 

RKatzin

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There are two Poncirus. Poncirus trifoliata, 'Trifoliate Orange', and Poncirus trifoliata contorta, 'Flying Dragon' . Looking at the tree posted by Osoyoung I would say it is a Trifoliate Orange and not a Flying Dragon. I could be wrong, it's happened before, it's hard to tell in a pic. Just not enough contortions for a Fly Dragon. They doubleback on the doubleback and then doubleback.
 

cbroad

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So, I went out in the yard to look at the poncirus, and my neighbor cut it down!!! Left the branches right there next to the stump. He cut it to about 3 or 4 inches, but if these sucker so much I'm hoping this thing will flush. Not sure when he cut it, don't think there were leaves on the dead branches so hopefully it was dormant when he did. The stump is still scratching green, so I still have hope.

Upside is if this thing comes back I have a good excuse to dig it!

-cbroad
 

RKatzin

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That is sage advice for ALL trees!!

On many trees, Acers for example, many bud sites are provide for future branching and leaf. Citrus trees however make bud sites reluctently on old wood and if you remove the collar that site will not put out new shoots, which will emerge from the collar.

cboard- these are tough and tenacious. Hard to get rid of once established. I'd get those stumps into captivity post haste!
 

CamdenJim

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There are two Poncirus. Poncirus trifoliata, 'Trifoliate Orange', and Poncirus trifoliata contorta, 'Flying Dragon' . Looking at the tree posted by Osoyoung I would say it is a Trifoliate Orange and not a Flying Dragon.

I grew up on a farm where the 'Hardy Orange'/Poncirus trifoliata was thoroughly assimilated as a native tree. They were everywhere, and locals used the mature examples as fence-post material -- absolutely indestructible. And dangerous. These look like well cared for, grown-and-clipped grade variety trifoliata examples, not like the 'contorta' variety. Just like what I've seen since childhood in the 1950s.

I've started working on several small ones for development as possible bonsai -- quite carefully, with gloves at all times. Unfortunately, I didn't take enough care with most of them this unusually cold Alabama winter, so I have only one that appears to have survived. The things are normally hardy way below what we experience, but not when they're in pots and left exposed. (The survivor was protected.)

Great! Another trip to the farm for harvesting poncirus/citrus trifoliata and a batch of wisteria stumps. All I have to do now is wait until next dormant season.

Patience, patience, patience I'm working on -- location, location, location is a given.

JC
 

RKatzin

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root stock

FYI: The orange industry uses the Poncirus as a hardy rootstock to grow varieties of oranges the same way Japanese Maples are used to grow cultivars.
 

drew33998

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AHHH Dario, did you know that PT was the original razor wire for perimeter defense? Confederate forces during the Civil War used these around breastworks. Wear Kevlar gloves ;)

Don't forget the Spanish Bayonet
 
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I picked up one from a sale over the weekend. Not sure how I feel about those gnarly thorns but I couldn't pass up the dramatic trunk. Its pot is completely full of roots, so likely it will be two seasons reducing and building some fine roots but I am looking forward to getting this one into a small bonsai pot.

IMG_20190921_123100.jpgIMG_20190921_123120.jpg
 

penumbra

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Nice trunk on that one. I can't believe you actually got it wired. I bought 2 small ones last winter and they at least tripled their size. I dont see me trying to bonsai one but I love them just the same.
 
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