KennedyMarx
Omono
So back to pinching. Those brown tips will have dried out and will flake off if you rub them with your fingertip?
Post your "Juniper Pinching" posts here!
- Thread starter Adair M
- Start date
The needle under the dead tip will eventually dry up. And fall off.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
If we are talking about scale Junipers?-------
I have to disagree with you there Adair. Rigida definitely needs (and likes) to be pinched once the new growth has elongated. There is no browning or dying back at all. Procumbens, I'm still not sure. It does not seem to like pinching but even cutting the green growth leaves lots of browning because it is next to impossible to cut between scales. Even if you can do it (pinch or cut) it does not seem to continue growth from that tip but starts again further down leading to very congested growth and ugly non growing shoots. Pruning back to a junction seems to remove to much. If anyone has discovered the best way to treat it, please let me know what you do (in detail!).
This year I'll try what Adair and BVF proclaim, beacause it sounds and looks good.
If we talk about needle junipers (rigida & communis) I prune them this way:
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/tosho-part-2/
If we talk about needle junipers (rigida & communis) I prune them this way:
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/tosho-part-2/
klosi
Shohin
Oh man, I posted one picutre and in a second it got set as an example of how not to treat your tree 
No offense taken though, it's funny
I also have some hornbeams, mugo, etc. if anyone wants to know how not to treat these species I can post some pictures
Anyway, to stay on topic,
I also lean on the side where pinching should not be made to shorten the growing needle. I must try it out myself for sure (as anyone should)...
Also good picture material for both sides of arguments.
No offense taken though, it's funny I also have some hornbeams, mugo, etc. if anyone wants to know how not to treat these species I can post some pictures
Anyway, to stay on topic,
I also lean on the side where pinching should not be made to shorten the growing needle. I must try it out myself for sure (as anyone should)...
Also good picture material for both sides of arguments.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Maybe to make sense of all of this we should determine why we are doing anything at all to the active growth on any kind of Juniper? Are we trying to cause the growth of pads to become denser or are we trying to keep the growth from pads from extending beyond our design parameters? Rather making adhoc decision that one method supersedes another in both results and history we should look at why we are doing it at all.
I remember when Bonsai Today came out with the first of many articles on Pinching Pines. At one point the discussion of balancing vigor and shortening the length of needles came along. At the same time a lot of new people were taking a shot at their first Pine. The problem that almost instantly arose was seen in examples of trees that were being treated with techniques that could be called refinement techniques. The trees these techniques were being used on had just recently been put on the path to bonsai, where great amounts of new growth was crucial, the length and compactness of the needles was of secondary importance.
In the end; the sexy Pine techniques that were being used, were working contrary to the development of the tree, that should have been allowed to develop freely within reason. Most of these "Fancy Needle" refinement techniques were adopted by growers that were not prepared to use them or deal with the trees response to them. Not realizing that most of the things they were trying to do would cause their young and developing Pine to fail in the effort.
So now we are back to Junipers and the initial question: Why, what and when. Why do we do what we do? What is it that we are going to do? When do we do it? And of course, which seems to be the crux of this discussion, how are we going to do it.
I remember when Bonsai Today came out with the first of many articles on Pinching Pines. At one point the discussion of balancing vigor and shortening the length of needles came along. At the same time a lot of new people were taking a shot at their first Pine. The problem that almost instantly arose was seen in examples of trees that were being treated with techniques that could be called refinement techniques. The trees these techniques were being used on had just recently been put on the path to bonsai, where great amounts of new growth was crucial, the length and compactness of the needles was of secondary importance.
In the end; the sexy Pine techniques that were being used, were working contrary to the development of the tree, that should have been allowed to develop freely within reason. Most of these "Fancy Needle" refinement techniques were adopted by growers that were not prepared to use them or deal with the trees response to them. Not realizing that most of the things they were trying to do would cause their young and developing Pine to fail in the effort.
So now we are back to Junipers and the initial question: Why, what and when. Why do we do what we do? What is it that we are going to do? When do we do it? And of course, which seems to be the crux of this discussion, how are we going to do it.
carp
Chumono
Pinching kills the growing tip. The growing tip produces auxin. Auxin is a crucial growing hormone. Removing the growing tip, stops the flow of auxin. This isn't a fancy needle refinement technique. It's simply proper horticulture.
wireme
Masterpiece
The new avatar pic is much better Crap.
Maybe these words will help:
When reducing foliage of a juniper, remove so as to leave no stub, or as little as possible. (Obviously, we're not talking about limbs and jins).
Cut back to where whatever you are removing is attached to its feeder branch. Nothing is "shortened", it's "removed".
When reducing foliage of a juniper, remove so as to leave no stub, or as little as possible. (Obviously, we're not talking about limbs and jins).
Cut back to where whatever you are removing is attached to its feeder branch. Nothing is "shortened", it's "removed".
carp
Chumono
Adair, how do you feel that I handled this tree in North Carolina without your consent? Hehehe
carp
Chumono
Whoever was there with your display looked like they could use a hand moving the tree into the van. So I helped.
Very good three dimensional movement that you don't really get to appreciate in a photo.
I carried my tree out like a server.
Very good three dimensional movement that you don't really get to appreciate in a photo.
I carried my tree out like a server.
carp
Chumono
Lol!!!
That's an old picture of it, for sure! Pre-2008. Maybe 2005 or so.
Here's a picture of it that was taken in 2008:
Yoppyx
Yamadori
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Doesn't this also hurt the auxin generators of the tree like pinching does. I don't see the difference between pruning a whole shoots vs pinching that shoot down. Don't both methods still remove the growing tips, thus weakening the tree as you just removed the auxin generators?
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
First you have to define and prove that removing the growing tips weakens the auxin generators---WHATEVER THE F those are. Then of course with the exception of some of the practice over the last maybe ten years, how have the Junipers treated in a contrary manner been affected adversely? Prove it.
Yopyx. You are right, we are looking at the instructions for a snipe hunt, where one thing is the same as another unless you are trying to make a point of it, where you can make your point by convincing people that the other point is bad. The real iissue is in proving that removing growing tips wekens the tree unless you cut it instead of Pinching it. This does not make sense.
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