Refrigerator Dormancy

[KennedyMarx]

How are you sure that the tree even went dormant in the refrigerator? It may have just started slowly dying. If it survives several seasons being overwintered like that then maybe you can claim success. All I'm saying is that it's a little early to start gloating.

 

[Austin]

How are you sure that the tree even went dormant in the refrigerator? It may have just started slowly dying. If it survives several seasons being overwintered like that then maybe you can claim success. All I'm saying is that it's a little early to start gloating.

whos to say either one of us are gloating about it we'r excited to see the trees woke up from something that most people on forum said would most certainly kill our trees, and it seems promising, and in one of rockm articls about dormancy he posted in this thread the scientists saw no reason to continue after 3 years where as most of you say it can only be conclusive after five.

a tree can survive for two years without proper dormancy soo if it never recives a proper dormancy in the three year span it would be dead. soo conclusions could be drawn at the 3 year mark

 

[rockm]

"and thats great you've been doing bonsai for 20 years I've been reading articles...?"

'nuf said...

 

[Austin]

"and thats great you've been doing bonsai for 20 years I've been reading articles...?"

'nuf said...

lmao thats awesome I've been reading articles by people who study this stuff for a living and livelyhood where as you do this for a hobby

 

[Anthony]

Normally hackberrys and the Gingko, go dormant as November approaches and by the end of December cease to grow/drop leaves, as did the Trident maple.
By January's end they are dormant.

I suspect with what I have observed, light seems to start the process and when the temperature begins to drop at night, may not be as much as it is in the North, it is enough to enhance the dormant period.

Anyhow here is an image of the Hackberry that dried out in the refrigerator, and I can show at a later date the others, but I am working presently, no time for images.

Age - 1983 to 2008 or so.
Good Night.
Anthony

 

[Austin]

"* The trident maple died last year because it got dried out in the fridge.
It was 18 years old and 15 inches tall with a 2.5 inch trunk. Grown from a whip. Source UK."
Anthony


^^ that should be enough proof that wintering in a fridge works.

 

[KennedyMarx]

"* The trident maple died last year because it got dried out in the fridge.
It was 18 years old and 15 inches tall with a 2.5 inch trunk. Grown from a whip. Source UK."
Anthony


^^ that should be enough proof that wintering in a fridge works.

And yet being in the fridge is what killed it.

 

[Austin]

And yet being in the fridge is what killed it.

it died indirectly from being in the fridge yes, but the cause of death was drying out.

it also survived for 18 years in the fridge

 

[october]

How come my salads never go dormant in the fridge. They just turn brown...

I am just having fun here. However, I think that if the poster likes horticultural experiments, There are probably more fun things to try. When the weather warms up a bit, how about checking to see what the largest size cutting you can take that will root. I would be interested if someone just collected some 2-3 inch cuttings off trees from the wild or landscape and tried to get them to root. Then documented the results. That could be beneficial to the bonsai community. A list of which species rooted and which did not. However, you would need to learn the procedure/procedures for propagating cuttings.

All in all though. This thread and the original are putting the chicken before the egg. I would recommend that the original poster study bonsai, get familar with the styles, wiring, bonsai principles etc.. Then do all the experiments you like. What you have now is experimentation on trees that will lead to no where. It's almsot like learning how to seal and water proof a new deck, but not having the carpentry knowledgeto build it.

Rob

 

[Austin]

How come my salads never go dormant in the fridge. They just turn brown...

I am just having fun here. However, I think that if the poster likes horticultural experiments, There are probably more fun things to try. When the weather warms up a bit, how about checking to see what the largest size cutting you can take that will root. I would be interested if someone just collected some 2-3 inch cuttings off trees from the wild or landscape and tried to get them to root. Then documented the results. That could be beneficial to the bonsai community. A list of which species rooted and which did not. However, you would need to learn the procedure/procedures for propagating cuttings.


Rob

I did that with 6 cuttings, all of wich rooted, broke bud and died in the span of a month and a half

I also belive the original poster was looking for an alternative to letting it sit on his balcony all winter

 

[GarlR]

How are you sure that the tree even went dormant in the refrigerator? It may have just started slowly dying. If it survives several seasons being overwintered like that then maybe you can claim success. All I'm saying is that it's a little early to start gloating.

It was already dormant before I placed it in the refrigerator. Here is the updated picture from when the other picture...with a few days passed.

 

[Anthony]

One for the group,

Since the Hackberry in the post dried out in the fridge and died, but a main root from the trunk grew a new shoot, is this the original tree continuing on or a new tree?
The actual shoot came off of the trunk, but on a main root.

If this is the original tree, it would now be a 30 year old tree from seed.

Mind you there are still two other Hackberrys that are 30 years old and an African Hackberry at 26 years of age, also from seed.
The African celtis, proves to be more tolerant of tropical weather in that roots left over in the growing troughs will resprout and continue on, without cold.

In later time a cold room powered by solar is to be built some what under ground and on the north side of the house.
This is to try cooler loving species -----------Japanese white pine, and so.
Just to see if it could be done.
Good Night.
Anthony.

 

[daygan]

… the trees woke up from something that most people on forum said would most certainly kill our trees, and it seems promising

I'm with you in regards to attempting to do something the specific details of which have not been done in combination before, with careful attention to scientifically confirmed horticultural necessities, but to be fair, I think if anyone did say that refrigeration would certainly kill anyone's trees, he meant that it would result in death in the long term, not immediately, as a result of multiple years of insufficient dormancy. I apologize to the original poster, as this isn't exactly relevant to your original question, but I do want to address this issue for a moment. There certainly is a risk that the dormant conditions given during refrigeration appear to be sufficient in the short term but, in fact, are not sufficient, so it has to be done with rigorous attention to detail, I think.

a tree can survive for two years without proper dormancy soo if it never recives a proper dormancy in the three year span it would be dead. soo conclusions could be drawn at the 3 year mark

That's actually fuzzy logic. The statement is one regarding the observation that a tree can survive for two years, because, up to this point, that length of time has been confirmed, and then indefinite dormancy / death ensues. The statement is not that a tree can survive for two years and absolutely only two years before death ensues. This means that up to this point, we do not know whether a tree would, at some later date, experience indefinite dormancy / death if it experienced two years without proper dormancy and then continued to grow healthily for another season. What we do know is that if this happened, within the bounds of our limited knowledge, this tree would be a record breaker. This is all we can say for certain. Three years is not an absolute mark of success or failure, it is simply a span of time that has been observed to be the common impassible maximum when blatantly improper dormancy conditions have been provided for the tree.

And yet being in the fridge is what killed it.

Again, to be fair, it was not the winter dormancy process in the fridge that killed the tree in question, but mitigating circumstances that could have been prevented if certain precautions had been taken, allowing the tree to continue to live healthily in a refrigeration-induced dormancy state. This point (“...the fridge is what killed it”), therefore, is moot.

 

[rockm]

"lmao thats awesome I've been reading articles by people who study this stuff for a living and livelyhood where as you do this for a hobby"

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I also belive the original poster was looking for an alternative to letting it sit on his balcony all winter

But WHY. That seems like a better, more logical way.

 

[GarlR]

@Austin - I have no idea where you saw I wrote that I have a balcony. I don't. I do live in an apartment complex that has apartments with tiny balconies, and I was debating on trying to move one. Alas, I couldn't because it would increase my rent.

My main point is, if I had a balcony, I'd use it and not my frig.

 

[Austin]

@Austin - I have no idea where you saw I wrote that I have a balcony. I don't. I do live in an apartment complex that has apartments with tiny balconies, and I was debating on trying to move one. Alas, I couldn't because it would increase my rent.

My main point is, if I had a balcony, I'd use it and not my frig.

I guess then I liberal with the term balcony as you stated there was just enough room to stand on it

edit : to me however the term would still apply, but I get that you wintered it in the fridge due to lack of outdoor space

 

[GarlR]

I guess then I liberal with the term balcony as you stated there was just enough room to stand on it

edit : to me however the term would still apply, but I get that you wintered it in the fridge due to lack of outdoor space

Let me clarify again. I DO NOT POSSESS A BALCONY OF ANY KIND. Unless you call 4 windows a balcony, then sure I have a balcony.

Technically I could place perhaps a ledge outside my window and put it there, but then again I live on the 1st floor and I really don't want someone to walk up and steal my precious trees.

 

[Austin]

I swear you called it a juliet balcony back on like page 2 or 3 but oh well lol

so then it whent in the fridge cause it can't even go outside? even during the summer?

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Just realize that you're looking at a substantial amount of time before this is bonsai worthy since you're not able to put it in the ground for a while.