Satsuki Azalea "Chinzan" Repot

Dav4

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Most of the trees I've purchased at NEBG had turface as a major component. As an example, my large satsuki,http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/meet-my-little-friend.4569/, was planted in to a mix of turface, kanuma, and lava after it was imported as a bare rooted specimen. It's been a while since I've bought a tree from there, by the way. Fwiw, I suspect there will occasionally be a difference in what an individual uses for his personal collection vs what that individual is selling or using as a medium for stock that's for sale.
 

fredman

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Pumice is good stuff.

I tried something 2 seasons ago. I planted one satsuki in a pot filled with only pumice. All 1/4 inch in size. That plant grew out its socks. Put on the most growth compared to the others (planted in bonsai soil mixed with peat moss).
It sadly had a nasty chlorosis. Will see how it goes this season. Will adjust my feeding to...
 

LanceMac10

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First, let me say, use what works for you!!

NEBG sells every kind of soil additive imaginable, individualy packaged.
Pre-mixed soil contains turface. They also have a blend called, "Pro Mix" consisting of lava, akadama and pumice.
I have noticed lately thatthey have been transplating into the Pro Mix more frequently.

Bonsai West retails a mix containing turface, coarse sand and composted pine bark.
This mix seems more water retentive than what NEBG is offering, in my experience with it.
Micheal Leven, the proprieter, did display one of his old Hatanaka junipers at the Artisans Cup. Unsure of what it was potted in, however.

I, myself, am transitioning all my materials into Pro Mix.
I do add a bit more akadama to the base mix.
 

coh

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Most of the trees I've purchased at NEBG had turface as a major component. As an example, my large satsuki,http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/meet-my-little-friend.4569/, was planted in to a mix of turface, kanuma, and lava after it was imported as a bare rooted specimen. It's been a while since I've bought a tree from there, by the way. Fwiw, I suspect there will occasionally be a difference in what an individual uses for his personal collection vs what that individual is selling or using as a medium for stock that's for sale.
I'm sure that's the case. I believe Bill uses the mix he sells as the base mix for his own (personal collection) trees, but then adds to it (akadama and charcoal for sure). I did send him a PM so maybe he'll check in and clarify if I'm misrepresenting what he actually does.
 

Eric Group

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Eric, Boon uses the same basic mix for deciduous trees, too. If you feel you want the soil to retain more water, increase the proportion of akadama. Maybe 2 parts akadama, one part lava, one part pumice.
I know he does... Just saying, the Elms I have planted in "Boone's Mix" did not grow as fast or as much as the ones I planted in my potting mix.
 
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Coh, don't you live in Rochester? What mix does Bill Valavanis use?
Purchased a chojubai from Bill last year. It's in akadama with a bit of haydite and a very small amount of charcoal, but it's a quince, so....
 

JoeR

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I wish I could afford to change all of my trees soil to the pro mix. I just don't feel that it's necessary to have several gallons of akadama shipped to me when I can get pine bark for $3.

I use pumice, lava, and sifted pine bark. Equal parts.

Honestly, In my opinion, what's the difference between pine bark and akadama? They both are there for water retention. They both retain nutrients, akadama probably retains more though idk. Ones $3 for several gallons and the other is $30 a bag?


Pine bark is a fine substitute for me so far.
 

Stickroot

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There are lots of soils that would have the right acidity. Peat moss works great for azaleas, and it just happens to be one of the primary ingredients in almost every high quality potting soil known to man.

Yep- I just told a guy to put his trees is POTTING SOIL. Somebody please burn me at the stake... Along with all the crispy critter ex- bonsai that died because their care givers tried to get too "fancy" with an inorganic mix they did not understand how to use!

I mix my own potting mix from bales of peat, perlite and a few other ingredients, mix in a bit of slow release organic frets... I plant EVERY TYPE OF TREE I OWN in it, and they grow like champs. Potting soil- pro mix, Hell Miracle grow is the HEAT!! It just costs a ton- provides plenty of nutrients and moisture which is what you want if you want a tree to be healthy and GROW. Once you have the kind of trunk you want, and you are ready to start reducing the root ball, you encourage a more compact root ball consisting of fine roots if you use these fancy inorganic soil components, which provides for a looser soil that introduces more air- more air= happier roots... that is important for a mature tree to survive in a very small pot, and that is why people recommend these kinds of components for Bonsai. Until they are IN A BONSAI POT though, grow the trees in what they are supposed to grow in- DIRT!

IMO That is the core of the majority of the "bad advice" we see given on this forum... A good bit of It is usually not really bad advice, it is more taken out of context. Someone reads that "Kanuma is best for azaleas"- great, let me go wash all the soil off the roots of my azaleas I am growing out in 3 gallon containers, and replace it with Kanuma! Oh... Wait... That will cost me about $2,000 for DIRT, and the trees won't grow any better? So... Kanuma must be snake oil then? No... It is suitable for a Bonsai that is far along in it's development and it makes a great BONSAI SOIL... Not going to be any better In a 3 gallon pot probably than the potting mix they were growing in! So, take advice in the content it is being provided for...

IMO, your trees need to be planted in larger containers with better dirt (or in the ground), they need more nutrients, more water and are probably either severely pot bound or in soil that is not nearly acidic enough which makes it difficult for them to absorb the nutrients they need to be healthy. Sure, if you want to put them in Bonsai trays as such young plants, you could and Kanuma would probably work great... But your trees could benefit from being grown out some more IMO.

Ohh, and Turface is just fine as a COMPONENT of a mix Andrew... Just saying. I know too many people (myself included) who have grown super healthy trees for YEARS in the stuff without problems. Turface, pumice, pine bark is a super mix for Maples- had one in it for three years or so now, and it is still one of my fastest growing, happiest Maples in a Bonsai pot. I am not going to recommend it OVER Akadama, but it is cheap and works just fine... If people don't want to pay for or have trouble getting other components, turface is totally fine.
Cat litter ! ;)
Had too
 

sorce

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Cat litter

Also known as Napa Oil Dry part no.8822.

Works fine alone. Mixing is for DJ's.

You don't lose a lot to sifting, even if you lose half (you don't, more like 1/6), -$3, oh poo. Lose half your akadama and your out 5 times that in shipping alone!

Produces fine feeders almost exclusively, even in regular pots.

Has a visual time to water color cue.

Has a relationship with water that your trees love. Excellent soak and release.
It will wick up your perched water table to the roots needing it by mid day. And is just as ready to release it back to them.

Can be resifted and used in year 2.

Pine fines actually make it less retentive.
There is no need to make it more retentive.

Roots don't grow into it. So no breakage at repot time, just shake it out.

It doesn't crap up with liquid fish fert.

Doesn't slime, doesn't produce dirty muck at the bottom of the pot.

It lays flat, and not too porous, so moss application is simple.

Porous enough to hear the air get sucked in, so don't even go there!

You can use fines to kill slugs and other pests.

It doesn't lime stain or algaefy.

Simple. Real simple.

I don't know if you can source the right product anywhere, but the right product, can be used anywhere.

So, while you all fret, argue, and mix a bunch of different substances to try and find the perfect soil.

I kick back, mixing substances, watching my trees grow like mad, enjoying the artist side of the coin.

Sorce
 

sorce

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And I found a source for the tennis court stuff Walter uses.
No need to go get it tho.

This is as close to Walter's watering and feeding regime as I care to get to.

And it is working incredibly well.

Next year, I will increase the fish, use it all year on Fish Friday, with a half blue Miracle grow feed on Tuesday or Wednesday, and I will get incredible growth.

Especially since I don't have to repot everything next year!

(Stealing from Anthony)
Good Day!

Sorce
 

JoeR

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Joe do you use composted or raw ?
Depends. I am still experimenting but my last batch was miracle grow potting soil with the fines sifted out. Leaves you with pine bark, and it depends how old the bag is but yes it is decomposing. Just depends.
 

VAFisher

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Also known as Napa Oil Dry part no.8822.

Works fine alone. Mixing is for DJ's.

You don't lose a lot to sifting, even if you lose half (you don't, more like 1/6), -$3, oh poo. Lose half your akadama and your out 5 times that in shipping alone!

Produces fine feeders almost exclusively, even in regular pots.

Has a visual time to water color cue.

Has a relationship with water that your trees love. Excellent soak and release.
It will wick up your perched water table to the roots needing it by mid day. And is just as ready to release it back to them.

Can be resifted and used in year 2.

Pine fines actually make it less retentive.
There is no need to make it more retentive.

Roots don't grow into it. So no breakage at repot time, just shake it out.

It doesn't crap up with liquid fish fert.

Doesn't slime, doesn't produce dirty muck at the bottom of the pot.

It lays flat, and not too porous, so moss application is simple.

Porous enough to hear the air get sucked in, so don't even go there!

You can use fines to kill slugs and other pests.

It doesn't lime stain or algaefy.

Simple. Real simple.

I don't know if you can source the right product anywhere, but the right product, can be used anywhere.

So, while you all fret, argue, and mix a bunch of different substances to try and find the perfect soil.

I kick back, mixing substances, watching my trees grow like mad, enjoying the artist side of the coin.

Sorce
Sorce, if you water with a hose would you have to worry about blowing it out of the pot?
 

Mellow Mullet

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Ok, 135 replies later, I thought that I'd post a current picture of the OP tree, Sippy. She has really filled in and full of buds. After she blooms, I plan on reducing the apex and wiring some branches. just as I did this year after blooming, and hopefully dispel some of the myth that blooming uses up too much energy. Anyhow, here she is, what do you think? Potted in lava, pumice, Turface, and fir bark.

John

DSC00783-1.jpg

DSC00784-1.jpg

DSC00782-1.jpg
 

Adair M

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Most of the trees I've purchased at NEBG had turface as a major component. As an example, my large satsuki,http://bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/meet-my-little-friend.4569/, was planted in to a mix of turface, kanuma, and lava after it was imported as a bare rooted specimen. It's been a while since I've bought a tree from there, by the way. Fwiw, I suspect there will occasionally be a difference in what an individual uses for his personal collection vs what that individual is selling or using as a medium for stock that's for sale.
A nursery has to make some compromises to make money. For instance, Brussel's soil is terrible! All those trees are kept in those super humid greenhouses, watered constantly... Yuck! I repot anything sourced from Brussel's into good soil at the first opportunity. (And, I also mist them, decreasing gradually to help them make the transition from the greenhouse to the outside.)
 
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