Sooo..... are Jade trees really trees?

[Woodland Spirit]

Tree:
something that sits in the ground and remains in the same spot for hundreds of years but manages to jump out in front of you on your way home from the pub

Bonsai:
So small yet so full of treeness.

Jade is this awesome amazing girl, whos a awesome friend, as she is always there for her friends, she sticks up for what she believes is right, all the time, shes loyal to who is loyal to her, but will not be walked all over, she trusts until she has a reason not too and believes in second chances. Shes a big dreamer and determind to make her dreams reality, shes not afraid to say how she feels, shes very caring, very mad, and just an all-round nice person and friend.

 

[A Random User]

A Jade won't teach you how to keep pine, and it won't allow you to learn bonsai techniques like pruning, wiring, developing nebari, shortening internodes, reducing leaf size, or proper watering.

How so?
Some folks are just funny!

Here is a link to my friend Adam ' s site who has actually worked on Jades and know ' s what he is actually talking about... in it you will see that he actually deals with everything that is said cannot be done?

http://adamaskwhy.com/2014/08/11/dwarf-jade-bonsai-techniques/


I think what is being argued with this thread is folks "dislike" for a certain type of material, rather than actual facts...

Fine, I get it... I am not really the biggest fan of Jades either.. however, I am not going to try an knock something, due to my own personal views regarding the material. I think there is enough of a variation in material out there to suit everyone's environments and personal tastes.

It has been said they don't make good bonsai... I think the photos I have posted and others, have shown otherwise, that this is not the case. That they can indeed be treated just like any other bonsai.

 

[sorce]

Was that from an American Girl Doll box?

Jade is a stripper with STD's. She is an amazing girl, but only after a twenty, and a few lines. She kind of trusts people but the paranoia from the coke keeps it shallow. She never really was a dreamer. Never really had goals. Got knocked up though, easy to propagate. She's not a very creative girl. She named her daughter Jaded.

Your turn Woodland Spirit.

Sorce

 

[fredman]

Oh dear. Two nutters teaming up...the future looks promising

 

[Woodland Spirit]

Plant:
The person standing at the corner of a bar not socializing

*** Jade is a stripper ***

Jade plant:

Off duty stripper


Can be made to "bonsai" for enough cash.
Not recommend.

 

[JoeR]

I know of at least 3 true varieties.

Portulacaria afra 'prostrata' - has a rougher bark, and foliage tends to trail rather than grow up. Leaves are smaller.

Then there is the variegated type, idk what it's called. Maybe Portulacaria afra 'variegata'. Slow grower.

Also a type which new growth appears golden and turns green as it matures.

I have never heard of prostrata but the one I am talking about is Portulacaria afra var. 'frank' which can be seen on Facebook:



Got any pictures of them?

 

[Bonsai Nut]

LOL! You never know WHAT you're going to find when you look at your show photos...



Zoomed in...

 

[JoeR]

Too funny B-nut!

 

[michaelj]

Yucca brevifolia is not considered a true tree. Why? Cuz someone said so.

I once won a lawsuit for a client who was sued by a very famous, very rich neighbor. The issue was whether my client had to remove her Queen Palm trees for blocking the rich guy's view. The CCRs said that no trees could be planted that would grow to a height in excess of 20' (my recollection of the number may be off).

We filed a motion for summary judgment listing several reasons why the plaintiff could not possibly win. One of the reasons was because a Queen Palm was not a "tree", at least not as the HOA intended the word to be used. We submitted expert testimony that it was not classified as a tree. The plaintiff submitted inadequate evidence of a palm being a "tree". The judge denied our motion on every ground except the "it's not a tree". On that ground, he granted our motion and threw out the lawsuit.

During oral argument, the judge uttered this explanation. "Everyone knows that a palm's not a tree. That's 'cause when when you cut 'em up and throw 'em in water, they don't float."

The ruling was upheld on appeal. True story.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

On the other hand I had a lambsquarter that grew six and a half feet tall. I trimmed it to look treelike and was asked many times what kind of tree it was.

I guess it's a matter of perspective.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Bonsai includes Kusamono as a sub-category of bonsai, and kusamono as a term originally meant grass planting, though today it is much more generic in what it can encompass. Arguing that something can only be a bonsai if it is a "tree" is silly, as it forgets one significant aspect of bonsai. Generally kusamono is used to convey a sense of time and place, often used as an accompaniment in a display with a bonsai tree. Sanyasou 山野草 is a sub-set of Kusamono where the planting is appreciated on its own, as the focal point of a display. Key is regardless of use bonsai and kusamono, when shown need to transmit or evoke an image, or feeling, a sense of time, or of space, most often of a scene encountered in nature, but a literal scene from nature is not required. The image or emotion can be quite abstract, the message conveyed can be anything the artist intends. Good bonsai evoke strong reactions, plantings that are not ready to be called bonsai will appear to the viewer to be nothing more than a plant in a pot. Most of us, myself included have a lot of plants in pots. I don't have any trees yet that truly meet this requirement. But I enjoy making the effort. I want to encourage those new to the hobby to keep trying and not get discouraged. Enjoy the activities that go into creating bonsai, even to try material that is not part of the cannon of species most commonly used.

Now there is something to be said, the cannon of "best" species for bonsai is in part because the species on the list really do have traits that lend themselves toward creating bonsai. But it is not a definitive list, and if you can create the image pretty much anything goes.

I have a Bursera fagaroides - torchwood copal, it is one of several Mexican species used to make the resin copal. It is considered a "tree" though it can also be a "shrub". It does have true wood, but it is also a succulent. It has a spongy layer between the bark and the xylem (wood) at the heart of the tree. I forget whether this layer is between the bark and the cambium, or if it is bark, cambium, spongy layer then xylem (wood). Regardless, is it a pachycaul, and as such it can go months without being watered. The tree in the image is about 17 years old, and only stand about 10 inches above the rim of the 3 inch diameter pot. When it is warm enough, nights above 40 F, it goes outside for the summer, and gets watered frequently. It grows rapidly, gets pruned often and otherwise treated as a clip & grow bonsai. When weather cools, it is brought inside and sits on a windowsill, often receiving zero water from November to April. Leaves drop and tree sits dormant. It has some traits that some will tell you makes a good succulent bonsai, it does have true wood, and it is hard, and will hold a shape if you wire the branch when young. However the wire scars bark quickly and it does not grow out of scars very quickly at all. Pruning scars do not heal over very well, the presence of the spongy layer makes the way they heal scars unlike other species, weird lumps will remain for many years. It has a strong tendency to swell between nodes, creating zones of reverse taper in odd places. Often the first section of trunk has a zone of reverse taper just below the first branch. Typical for all members of Bursera. Yet there are those that will say they are good as succulent bonsai. There are those that will dismiss them out of hand. What do I think? This one is a nice attractive house plant. It is not bonsai, though with some work, maybe it could become so. But I already have been growing it for 17 years with bonsai in mind, and it has never come close to meeting my expectations. A few years ago, I decided it was a "houseplant" and it was potted in this pot, rather than having it take up more space in a low wide bonsai pot. So this is my "houseplant". I love the fragrance when I bruise a leaf, and I enjoy it for what it is. Bonsai - no, but a fun plant none the less.





This next one is a cutting off the 17 year old Bursera. This cutting is only 5 years old. I haven't totally given up on calling it bonsai, though clearly it isn't "there" yet. On its way? Maybe. This one hasn't developed the reverse taper issue the other one has. I like it, it does "say" something to me, though I can't quite place what it says. I should probably chop it significantly lower than what it is, height is about 16 inches above rim of pot. This one received water once since November, photo taken end of December.




What does this mean in terms of the original poster's question. I suppose my point is you can apply bonsai techniques to just about any plant material you can cultivate. Applying the techniques do not make it bonsai. It becomes bonsai when the plant creates an image that conveys content beyond the fact of the plant in the pot. At least that is my take on the discussion.

Crassula species generally do not have the traits needed to easily grow them to create the image with content needed to be called bonsai
Portulacaria have more traits favorable for bonsai than Crassula, but they too are not easy to create an image with the content needed to be called bonsai. Best portulacaria bonsai usually have great age as a component, at least 25 to 30 years or more before they develop enough character. No reason not to try, but there are other species that would give you quicker results. And Bursera is not one of them, it is just my "Portulacaria" equivalent in my collection. Something that just doesn't quite "get there" even with decade or more of growing.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Here ya go... Craigslist in Yorba Linda asking $159. These things would weigh a TON... they are more or less solid water.



By the way, that is a 6' block wall

 

[thumblessprimate1]

I once won a lawsuit for a client who was sued by a very famous, very rich neighbor. The issue was whether my client had to remove her Queen Palm trees for blocking the rich guy's view. The CCRs said that no trees could be planted that would grow to a height in excess of 20' (my recollection of the number may be off).

We filed a motion for summary judgment listing several reasons why the plaintiff could not possibly win. One of the reasons was because a Queen Palm was not a "tree", at least not as the HOA intended the word to be used. We submitted expert testimony that it was not classified as a tree. The plaintiff submitted inadequate evidence of a palm being a "tree". The judge denied our motion on every ground except the "it's not a tree". On that ground, he granted our motion and threw out the lawsuit.

During oral argument, the judge uttered this explanation. "Everyone knows that a palm's not a tree. That's 'cause when when you cut 'em up and throw 'em in water, they don't float."

The ruling was upheld on appeal. True story.

 

[ColinFraser]

Here ya go... Craigslist in Yorba Linda asking $159. These things would weigh a TON... they are more or less solid water.

Yep, big crassula are kind of a dime a dozen around here too. I found this one sitting on the sidewalk next to my parked car! The city was taking out a planter/divider and just left its former inhabitant there. I tossed it in the car, nursed it back to vigor, and then gave a it to my mom to use as a patio container plant. I was definitely NOT tempted to attempt any kind of bonsai training.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

 

[thumblessprimate1]

 

[ColinFraser]

 

[Bonsai Nut]

 

[ColinFraser]

View attachment 92891

LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*LIKE*

 

[ColinFraser]

"If your succulent weighs the same as a Volkswagen . . . then . . . it's a bonsai?! Burn it!!!"