Toward a Definition of Art and Bonsai as Art

[Steve]

Steve, I know you were making a joke, but it's important to distinguish between works of art and works of art that someone likes. We all have our personal tastes, but that doesn't necessarily mean that art we don't like is bad art. Some art is intended to repulse.

Hi Chris, You know what? A part of me was joking and a part of me was serious. I guess I am just a little bemused by all the differing opinions on what defines good art. My point is it is such an objective thing that I wonder if it can really be defined for everyone.

I think Hitler tried to define what was good art and what wasn't, and we all know what happened to him

I see art all around me every day, some I like and some I don't like, (my personal taste) but I don't consider the art that I don't like to be bad art, it"s just art that doesn't rock my boat.

Cheers mate,

Steve.

 

[No it's not...]

I think Hitler tried to define what was good art and what wasn't, and we all know what happened to him

Steve.

He did, he called it "entartete kunst" wich means "degenerate art". He actually managed to gather most of the art I like at one place

What I really wanted to say that I didn't want to sound as confrontational as I did in my last posts, they weren't directed at anyone or any forum in particular

 

[Chris Johnston]

Hi Chris, You know what? A part of me was joking and a part of me was serious. I guess I am just a little bemused by all the differing opinions on what defines good art. My point is it is such an objective thing that I wonder if it can really be defined for everyone.

I think Hitler tried to define what was good art and what wasn't, and we all know what happened to him

I see art all around me every day, some I like and some I don't like, (my personal taste) but I don't consider the art that I don't like to be bad art, it"s just art that doesn't rock my boat.

Cheers mate,

Steve.

Remember, onlyone person here has tried to make the distinction between high art and low art, good art and bad art. The point of this thread was to actually define art, and from that come to an idea of what that means for bonsai.

 

[Smoke]

...and will absolutely change nothing in the way any of us here do bonsai. They are what they are.

A classic example of another attempt to marginalize the discussion of art and its relationship to bonsai.

Please let those of us who actually wish to further our understanding of such matters do so. You have the right to stay inside your own limited mindset, please don't demand that we all join you and put on blinders as well.

I have heard these same words "will absolutely change nothing in the way any of us here do bonsai" a few times before, in the discussion of three dimensional bonsai and the myth of the single front for example. They were as wrong then as they are now.

Anything that furthers or understanding of any aspects of bonsai changes our outlook and in doing so, changes the way we view and design bonsai, even if only on a subconscious level. Even after careful thought, if we realize a idea put forth is wrong, it confirms our own beliefs and that also affects how we view and design bonsai.

In short, there is not now, nor has there ever been any harm in open, intelligent discussion on the many aspects of bonsai. This is a discussion forum, one can not design bonsai here, one can only exchange ideas and information. Your attempt to devalue this exchange is actually what is harmful to the art.



Will

Communication! You're correct, we should consider this.

"To state that it has to be an object really narrows the possible expressions that art can take."

True and embarassing obvious, thanks for bringing this up.

So are we getting closer with:

Art is communication though various mediums, created using talented application of techniques, which affects the community on an emotional, intellectual, or spiritual level.



Will

I find this four year old dialog rather humerous since out of all those involved in the forum, it is I who have challenegd myself in the artistry of bonsai. By entering in the Kazari competitions and studying the arts with Kathy Shaner, Larry and Nina Ragle, my own sensai Katsumi Kinoshita and Andreas Marks, curator of the Japanese Museum and others I have moved into directions not thought possible four years ago.

Last years entry earned me a $1000.00 for second place in a purly artistic endeavor. This was acomplished with three items not necessarily art unto themselves.

It would be interesting to see how far you have come in four years Will......

 

[Bill S]

I think his sojourn has taken him away from forums, with the last blow up, there is without a doubt a haze over his rep., whether you you loved or hated him, there is a you need to explain stigma attached to his return, not sure he would be believed if he tells the truth. Moso than prior to Mr Stevens thread.

In english, I don't think he'll be baited into a reply. Maybe if Chris tries though.

 

[grouper52]

Sleeping dogs, anyway.