dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
could be frost, or fungus, it can also be a root issue, to much moisture loss (placed in wind after repotting). Or early heavy fertilizing... it's very easy to have a combination of more of those causes.
Trident maple with dark black edges
- Thread starter remist17
- Start date
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
How heavy is too heavy and how early is too early. Because I pour the fertilizer on at first sign of green. Heavily.
americanelmer
Shohin
It is not frost.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
What's frost???
JK - it might be caused by more than one thing, but I think we can rule out frost in my case when I had the problem. That doesn't happen too often in Houston.
But I will use the opportunity to once again plug dormant spraying. Knock out bugs and fungal diseases back before they have a chance to grow and reduce your chemical dependence at the same time. I still spray with fungicides occassionally - pines for needle cast and a few others. But for the most part, I find I just don't have to. Why let some fungal infection take hold in the growing tissue of your tree and then try and play catch up by spraying increasingly harsh fungicides laced with carcinogens all growing season? Do yourself and your plants a favor and take care of any issues before they become a problem. Dormant spraying with lime sulfur is a relatively safe, cheap and effective alternative to filling up your garage with a bunch of fungicides.
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dirk hoorelbeke
Omono
I'm afraid i can not give you the answer. There is a big difference between conditions. I had bad experiences with maples in general in the first years of my hobby. So much i stopped with maples. Part of the problem is wind and cold shelter in spring in our climate. Since i can protect them more now i start seeing progression with the maples. I do not see the black edged leaves any more. I've been told to hold of fertilizer until leaves have hardened almost, and not only for developed trees. I'm one of those guys that like to test things out, so i might experiment a bit. This year i'll wait with fertilizing...
Shima
Omono
Same problem here, last year too. A warm dry March and April, buds swell so I re-pot then it turns cold and wet so the leaves get too big and black edges. Along with spraying I'm doing a soil drench. But nothing works very well.
Evan
Seedling
Hey folks I truly appreciate the comments on this subject, it means the world to me. "Americanelmer" has a great idea. First I'll try the earliest techniques of the sprays. (purchased already). Then as I work through it, I will move toward the suggestion by Americanelmer. I like the thinking that we need to have the tree build up its defenses.
Just a note: Has been no chance of frost damage whatsoever in the last 3 plus years? I know that my former growing area tended to be a real "bake" without much relief but rainy days. The prize trident I mentioned could handle the worst set up, yet this year it's got the issue way more than last year. That tree did have the issue last year only slightly, and then by removing only the affected leaves it went away. Other trees lose branches, or just plain croak!
Been super busy these last several days, but I will try and post a few pictures of that damaged parts before I start to remove leaves and spray.
Just a note: Has been no chance of frost damage whatsoever in the last 3 plus years? I know that my former growing area tended to be a real "bake" without much relief but rainy days. The prize trident I mentioned could handle the worst set up, yet this year it's got the issue way more than last year. That tree did have the issue last year only slightly, and then by removing only the affected leaves it went away. Other trees lose branches, or just plain croak!
Been super busy these last several days, but I will try and post a few pictures of that damaged parts before I start to remove leaves and spray.
Shima
Omono
Here are the photos I took. I really could not get a really good one. Only a few of the leaf edges are black and crunchy. The leaf is still young and tender.
This is exactly the problem on my tridents, only worse. I just got some Plant doctor organic fungicide with mono and di-potassium salts of phosphorous acid which seems to be key to controlling this plague. http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Laboratories-Organocide-Systemic-Fungicde/dp/B00CJJ0BCM. Fingers crossed. In a group planting of 3 tridents only one has the problem.
The link is all screwed up.
Evan
Seedling
Being new to the forum I am trying to get you folks some images of my troubled trees and the brown edges of the leaves. Through the week I have been able to use one of the sprays, Daconil, which comes out of the bottle like runny snot! Goes on rather thick, yet sprays somehow? Very strange! I had to buy more so I bought bulk supply to mix on my own. This substance when mixed was rather watery and ran off much more than coating, hmmmm..?
On some trees I have removed some of the affected leaves. Some of the trees I just sprayed them waiting for some newer growth in order to remove bad leaves. I'll do my best to give updates and tell my story, success or fail.
I have 3 trees pictured. Sorry theres no away shots to show the whole tree, as I am focusing on the leaves.
Here goes with the pictures:
On some trees I have removed some of the affected leaves. Some of the trees I just sprayed them waiting for some newer growth in order to remove bad leaves. I'll do my best to give updates and tell my story, success or fail.
I have 3 trees pictured. Sorry theres no away shots to show the whole tree, as I am focusing on the leaves.
Here goes with the pictures:
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
When I click on the links, I get this message:
"Bonsai Nut - Error
You do not have permission to view media within this album."
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
A product in the same family (from what I deduced from my readings on the web, correct me if I'm wrong) is Fosetyl-Al (Aluminium phosphite, AlO3P). I don't know if it's available in trhe US, but in Europe, esp. in France, it is considered to be one of the most efficient treatment for some fungal diseases or bacterial infections.
Evan
Seedling
When I view my post, the pictures show on the page. At least they show with me signed in? Anyone else have trouble with seeing my photos? I can also click on a photo and see the details too, hmmmm...
Add a few drops of dawn dish soap to your mix in the spray bottle, it will help it coat the leaves instead of just running off.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Please don't think me condescending, but in case you don't know, it's a concentrate. It needs to be diluted before you use it. Please don't spray the concentrate - it's not good for you or your trees to aerosolize concentrated fungicide.
I can't see your picture either. But I suggest you take some of those leaves to your local ag extension and have them tested. They'll be able to tell you what it is and to suggest a treatment. I suspect it's some form of anthracnose. Here's a link to another discussion on this topic.
http://ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com/t...-persistant-leaf-problem-mineral-roots-fungus
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
He could have been using the pre-mixed spray bottle that is available at Lowes, Home Depot, etc. I tried that stuff and the bottle just didn't spray well (this is a common problem according to reviews of the product). When I purchased and diluted the concentrate in a regular tank sprayer, I had no problems.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Evan
Seedling
Yup, I did buy the premixed stuff at first, then ran out and bought the concentrate. I'll add a tiny few drops of soap to get a bit more adhesion as suggested.
I'm still working on getting the photos to be available to all. Please be patient. Forums are all different sometimes, and since there is no tutorial, I have to experiment. Sorry bout that.
I'm still working on getting the photos to be available to all. Please be patient. Forums are all different sometimes, and since there is no tutorial, I have to experiment. Sorry bout that.
Evan
Seedling
Think I got the pics for everyone to view.
I'm a bit nervous to take a leaf in to our local extension, they seem not to be very knowledgeable. I may do so if it continues.
I'm a bit nervous to take a leaf in to our local extension, they seem not to be very knowledgeable. I may do so if it continues.
Tim D
Seed
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Have you had any luck, Evan? I'm having the same problem here in New England. I overwintered my trident at the local bonsai nursery, and when I went to pick it up, they said they were having the same issue with theirs. (The black edges on mine started last summer.) The nursery thought it might be the water, but if you're having the same issue in Washington State, it's more likely some kind of fungus for virus.
Based on the fact that its the leaf edges, I've been thinking its a foliar fungus, but spraying with fungicide last year didn't do anything. Maybe I didn't spray enough? The only other thing I can think is that the culprit elsewhere and is dripping onto the leaves and collecting at the tips, where the increased concentration is causing the dieback. Mine live under a screened enclosure for sun/pest protection. Yours?
Based on the fact that its the leaf edges, I've been thinking its a foliar fungus, but spraying with fungicide last year didn't do anything. Maybe I didn't spray enough? The only other thing I can think is that the culprit elsewhere and is dripping onto the leaves and collecting at the tips, where the increased concentration is causing the dieback. Mine live under a screened enclosure for sun/pest protection. Yours?
Evan
Seedling
Tim- Thanks for asking. So far, some of the trees, which include several crabapples of which I did not mention, are doing slightly better.
The first posted photos on this by "remist17" along with my photos show the same problem. I was so relieved to see that someone else has the same issue. Only happy to see that we as a group are focused on it and that several have great suggestions.
If you follow the thread my mentioning of the Daconil product I sprayed first, not the mix your own concentrate, looks like it's a better product than the mix your own. When I sprayed the premixed product it went on sort of thick and drooled down and did not leave the leaves with spots like the mix your own of the same chemicals. Although the premixed kind is way more expensive, I am going to use it over the mix your own. I'd spend hundreds on a better product not to lose my trees!!!
I have also used a product called "Garden Sentinel Biofungicide" as a water in drench from Gardens Alive on the web. For now, I have sprayed the Daconil product twice, the next week I did the soil drench with the Garden Sentinel, and also used a interesting "tea" by a local guy that has some interesting ingredients in it that are all natural. I searched for the ingredients and will have to get back with you. Basically I'm trying to carefully feed them too during this rehab.
Part of the rehab is to remove leaves where possible depending on the strength of the tree and not defoliate. Some of these trees are already weak, those don't get a defoliation. A few of the tridents are showing some positive response. Also a few of the crabs are showing positive response as well, but not all.
As for my set up, I have recently posted a few pictures of my new set up in the "displays" section of this site. Briefly it has a clear covered roof, and lots of open air. The former site did not allow direct rains or drips, only side rains and heavy misting. When I think about this problem over the years that I have lost trees, I believe it has been THE culprit for the demise of all the trees. We had a flair up of this issue in our orchard trees a couple years ago with both apple and plum. One year it was quite strong in the orchard. Since then the orchard has taken care of itself with minimal signs.
As you guys know, these things can take lots of time to rebound, I would have hoped to give more positive details before now, but I need to be patient, which is hard when you see your trees suffering.
With my new set up for the trees I must at least report that some trees are doing better than ever before!
Again, much appreciation to all those concerned, your support is incredible.
The first posted photos on this by "remist17" along with my photos show the same problem. I was so relieved to see that someone else has the same issue. Only happy to see that we as a group are focused on it and that several have great suggestions.
If you follow the thread my mentioning of the Daconil product I sprayed first, not the mix your own concentrate, looks like it's a better product than the mix your own. When I sprayed the premixed product it went on sort of thick and drooled down and did not leave the leaves with spots like the mix your own of the same chemicals. Although the premixed kind is way more expensive, I am going to use it over the mix your own. I'd spend hundreds on a better product not to lose my trees!!!
I have also used a product called "Garden Sentinel Biofungicide" as a water in drench from Gardens Alive on the web. For now, I have sprayed the Daconil product twice, the next week I did the soil drench with the Garden Sentinel, and also used a interesting "tea" by a local guy that has some interesting ingredients in it that are all natural. I searched for the ingredients and will have to get back with you. Basically I'm trying to carefully feed them too during this rehab.
Part of the rehab is to remove leaves where possible depending on the strength of the tree and not defoliate. Some of these trees are already weak, those don't get a defoliation. A few of the tridents are showing some positive response. Also a few of the crabs are showing positive response as well, but not all.
As for my set up, I have recently posted a few pictures of my new set up in the "displays" section of this site. Briefly it has a clear covered roof, and lots of open air. The former site did not allow direct rains or drips, only side rains and heavy misting. When I think about this problem over the years that I have lost trees, I believe it has been THE culprit for the demise of all the trees. We had a flair up of this issue in our orchard trees a couple years ago with both apple and plum. One year it was quite strong in the orchard. Since then the orchard has taken care of itself with minimal signs.
As you guys know, these things can take lots of time to rebound, I would have hoped to give more positive details before now, but I need to be patient, which is hard when you see your trees suffering.
With my new set up for the trees I must at least report that some trees are doing better than ever before!
Again, much appreciation to all those concerned, your support is incredible.
