Yes it's a Pine. But What Kind?!

RyanFrye

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When I purchased this pine I was told that it was a japanese black pine. However, now that it is budding out it doesn't look like my other JBP's. The needles are relatively short and not very stiff and it appears to be healthy.

Anyone have a clue as to what variety this is? Or maybe it's not even a JBP at all?:confused:
 

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mapleman77

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Hi,

I don't know for sure, but it almost looks like a mugo! The needles and candles look similar...

Hope that helps,
David
 

RyanFrye

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Hi,

I don't know for sure, but it almost looks like a mugo! The needles and candles look similar...

Hope that helps,
David

Hi David,

That's what I thought. But the guy I bought it from swore it was a JBP and said that he has had it growing here in Central Florida for the past 20+ years since he moved his nursery from New Jersey. I don't think a mugo would last that long down here.
 

mapleman77

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Hey again,
Ok, well I don't really know of any other pines that look like mugos....but then again I don't know much abou pines in general! Okay, maybe a little...

Hope that you find your answer! In any case, it looks to be ripe for candling...

David
 

RyanFrye

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Hey again,
Ok, well I don't really know of any other pines that look like mugos....but then again I don't know much abou pines in general! Okay, maybe a little...

Do you think that mugos can survive down here? I probably know less than you (or anyone else for that matter) about pines, but I was thinking maybe it was a red pine? This loosely based on something I heard about white pines' needles not being as stiff as black pines and the red pines are hybrid between black and white pines. WOW, that's some creative logic isn't it?:D
 

Graydon

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Relax, it's a JBP. What you are seeing is the male cone (for my lack of a better term) that releases the pollen. Keep an eye on them over the next week or two and soon they will extend and open releasing pollen all over.
 

RyanFrye

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Relax, it's a JBP. What you are seeing is the male cone (for my lack of a better term) that releases the pollen. Keep an eye on them over the next week or two and soon they will extend and open releasing pollen all over.

Hmm....I saw that happen around December/January....and then these buds started swelling all over the tree. I assumed they were candles.
 
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Graydon is right on this, as on most things. It's a JBP, and this is common for them.

Chris
 

RyanFrye

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Graydon is right on this, as on most things. It's a JBP, and this is common for them.

Chris

Relax, it's a JBP. What you are seeing is the male cone (for my lack of a better term) that releases the pollen. Keep an eye on them over the next week or two and soon they will extend and open releasing pollen all over.

This is good to know!

Another question. I have this planted in the ground to create a thicker trunk. Should I decandle? What should I do if anything?
 
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Do not remove the candles on a tree in the ground. If you want it to grow bigger (and I suggest showing a pic of the full tree), you have to let the candles grow. I suggest you read Brent Walston's blog at

Bonsai Nurseryman

Chris
 

mapleman77

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Hi Ryan,

I agree about the candling...just let it grow. Actually, I'd let a branch or two grow wild, and keep the others more confined, for lack of a better word, to keep branch structure from being completely ruined. Can you post a picture of the whole tree and how thick is the trunk base?

David
 

RyanFrye

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Do not remove the candles on a tree in the ground. If you want it to grow bigger [...]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your input so far:) But, if I don't remove candles wouldn't the branches become gangly and too far away from the trunk?

I'll post a pic of the whole tree as soon as I can.

Ryan
 

RyanFrye

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Hi Ryan,

Actually, I'd let a branch or two grow wild, and keep the others more confined, for lack of a better word, to keep branch structure from being completely ruined.

David,

This makes more sense to me than just letting it grow completely free.

Ryan
 

RyanFrye

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Here are some pics. Sorry for the busy back ground. The base of the tree is a little over 2".
 

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mapleman77

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Hey Ryan,

I love your JBP! I think that is has awesome potential (keep in mind that this is coming from a pretty much noob). Are you planning to do a literati or what? I only ask because the bark, the tree all look like it would be a beautiful literati within a few years.

David

PS: Did I mention that the bark looks REALLY nice?!?!?
 

Graydon

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I can't tell you much about JBP in ground in Florida, I just planted some in ground a couple of years ago. I can tell you to be prepared to take a spade and trim the root ball back after it has been in ground after a few years. Dreaded pine nematodes seem to attack those roots far out from the trunk. By spading them back a bit the tree send out new and unaffected roots that are good for a few more years. Not a long term solution but I am assuming it's there to fatten up a bit?
 

RyanFrye

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I can't tell you much about JBP in ground in Florida, I just planted some in ground a couple of years ago. I can tell you to be prepared to take a spade and trim the root ball back after it has been in ground after a few years. Dreaded pine nematodes seem to attack those roots far out from the trunk. By spading them back a bit the tree send out new and unaffected roots that are good for a few more years. Not a long term solution but I am assuming it's there to fatten up a bit?

I'm trying to fatten it up a bit...and just see how it does. It's more for my own learning experience than anything else. I'm glad you told me about the possibility of nematodes. It has only been in the ground for one year.
 

RyanFrye

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Hey Ryan,

I love your JBP! I think that is has awesome potential (keep in mind that this is coming from a pretty much noob). Are you planning to do a literati or what? I only ask because the bark, the tree all look like it would be a beautiful literati within a few years.

David

PS: Did I mention that the bark looks REALLY nice?!?!?

Thanks David. I appreciate your compliments. I think it has potential too. I don't know if I will go with literati or not. I haven't made up my mind. I'm glad you like the bark. But, to me it isn't quite corky enough. It's still too smooth for me to be excited about.

I'm hoping that by putting it in the ground it will spead up the development of the bark as well.
 
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I'm trying to fatten it up a bit...and just see how it does. It's more for my own learning experience than anything else. I'm glad you told me about the possibility of nematodes. It has only been in the ground for one year.

Ryan,
In my opinion, your tree does not need to be planted in the ground. The base is 2", you already have good bark with lichen, good movement from what I can see, and your branching is fairly high on the tree.

It's kind of a Buddhist thing here. Don't try to have what you want with this tree, try to want what you have.

Here's what you have:

Pro:
You have a mostly elegant trunk line with some natural movement, right up almost to the top of the tree.

You have a great healthy tree with good looks on the trunk insofar as bark and lichen are concerned. It looks old.

You have several good branches placed perfectly for certain styles or artistic impressions.

Most of all, you have age. This tree has been worked for several years and mostly done pretty well.

Con:
The top branches on this tree are already on the verge of becoming too thick to use. The top of this tree can be remade in just a very few short years, but you must start this year.

There are no low branches on this tree, so forget about thickening the trunk to produce taper. What will happen is the upper branches will grow far too quickly and you will ruin what you have.

So that's what you have...a tree that is on the verge of being a very good literati tree, but with few prospects to become much of anything else. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like this material.

So you could put it in the ground for a few years and end up with nothing. Or you could begin training it now and have a nice tree in 5 years or less.

What do you think?

Chris
 

RyanFrye

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Ryan,
In my opinion, your tree does not need to be planted in the ground. The base is 2", you already have good bark with lichen, good movement from what I can see, and your branching is fairly high on the tree.

It's kind of a Buddhist thing here. Don't try to have what you want with this tree, try to want what you have.

Here's what you have:

Pro:
You have a mostly elegant trunk line with some natural movement, right up almost to the top of the tree.

You have a great healthy tree with good looks on the trunk insofar as bark and lichen are concerned. It looks old.

You have several good branches placed perfectly for certain styles or artistic impressions.

Most of all, you have age. This tree has been worked for several years and mostly done pretty well.

Con:
The top branches on this tree are already on the verge of becoming too thick to use. The top of this tree can be remade in just a very few short years, but you must start this year.

There are no low branches on this tree, so forget about thickening the trunk to produce taper. What will happen is the upper branches will grow far too quickly and you will ruin what you have.

So that's what you have...a tree that is on the verge of being a very good literati tree, but with few prospects to become much of anything else. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like this material.

So you could put it in the ground for a few years and end up with nothing. Or you could begin training it now and have a nice tree in 5 years or less.

What do you think?

Chris

I think...that makes since. I'm not very (hardly at all) familiar with the growth habbits of conifers in general, especially JBP. So, now that I know I'm not going to be able to create taper and get virtually no where with this particular tree I think I'll take your suggestion and start styling it now.

So I guess my next question is: Is is too late in the season (Central Florida) to lift it from the ground? (Remember it has only been there for one season. And, hardly any root work was done prior to it being planted. It was pretty much lifted from the nursery can and placed in the ground.) I have already worked on my other pines around Super Bowl weekend (this was the prime time for my area, or so I was told).
 

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