Young bonsai artist from Tennessee..astounding bonsai

[A Random User]

What I am saying or trying to say, understanding that of late I have not been able to get my point across without causing someone to go ballistic, or view what I say as a personal affront, is that we should all realize that we can create work like this. It's not the material that's at fault, it's us. I'm not saying that no one you mentioned could not do this, I am saying that we can and should all do this.

As to the skip yew: If you or I brought this to a work shop we would probably be told that it was a hopeless tree, the same with the fire wood Yew. I am not trying to elevate Graham Potter to some legendary pedestal, it is that his videos are there where all of us can see the kind of transformations are possible and that's all. He is just another guy that puts his pants on the same way we all do and if he can do this we all can do this.

WOW !!!
this sounds an awful lot like what I've been
posting... but some how I was just a legend
in my own mind ??? Go Figure ???

I think we now know who the legend in
their own mind is... seeing that it is not
at all true until you say it ???

Are you a parrot ???

Besides... I don't know what you all are doing
where you are from... but we down here in
Florida, work to create trees like this every day.

 

[Vance Wood]

WOW !!!
this sounds an awful lot like what I've been
posting... but some how I was just a legend
in my own mind ??? Go Figure ???

I think we now know who the legend in
their own mind is... seeing that it is not
at all true until you say it ???

Are you a parrot ???

Besides... I don't know what you all are doing
where you are from... but we down here in
Florida, work to create trees like this every day.

How about showing us some of yours? Some of yours like Graham's, as you say you create every day. If that's true you should be able to show us one.

At least I don't coach people to make crapsai. My words above in red.

 

[A Random User]

Can I throw this off on a different dirrection ???
See to me, one of the biggest changes I see happening
in American Style which I know has been happening
for some time now... is the getting rid of necessarily
padding everything up on the tree.

Alot of this has changed with our moving to a more
natural looking tree, which does not obviously always
have pads...

This style which the Europeans have been doing for
quite a while, is what I personally think has resulted
in their moving ahead in the Talent pool. While we
were pinching and frantically worrying about front branch
/back branches, and pyramid shapes...

A few things that should be noted with this approach.

1. rougher, collected stock can more easily be turned
into a descent bonsai with this approach. Where as
normally with padding, it would not be acceptable.

2. more brances are left on the tree with this approach,
which not only leads to a much faster recovery time,
allowing even more work to be done on the tree. But,
the trees obviously grow and age faster.

And most importantly...

It also allows for one to often have an almost instant
bonsai with a very finished look, Even though it may
be the tree's first styling.

Some of the trees I am seeing now being created... are
obviously meant to be shown naked, for the branch work is
increditable, and has 5 million branches !!! These are trees
where obviously the negative space in a tree's design...
Is no longer being considered part of the tree.

 

[A Random User]

At least I don't coach people to make crapsai.

Dude !!!
You "Coined" another stupid phrase...

"Crapsai"

Oh, won't your mother just be so proud !!!
Have you put it out on Google yet that you are the
originator of this phrase ??? Like you did "Mallsai " ???
I want to be sure the due credit is deserved for such a
stupid phrase ...

 

[Vance Wood]

Dude !!!
You "Coined" another stupid phrase...

"Crapsai"

Oh, won't your mother just be so proud !!!
Have you put it out on Google yet that you are the
originator of this phrase ??? Like you did "Mallsai " ???
I want to be sure the due credit is deserved for such a
stupid phrase ...

Let's see your trees.

 

[A Random User]

Let's see your trees.

Thank god where not in the bathroom...

Dude... you need to get over it. I am not going to
just show you my trees because you are wanting
some pissing contest.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Going to close this thread if it devolves into ego one upmanship. Discuss ideas - and no personal attacks and name-calling, etc.

 

[A Random User]

Going to close this thread if it devolves into ego one upmanship. Discuss ideas - and no personal attacks and name-calling, etc.

Sorry B-nut... I am going to take my thoughts to another thread.
So as not to have to close down Rob's thread, sorry Rob.

 

[james]

I hope he decides to stay in America. Japan has enough first rate bonsai Masters.

A Bonsai Art of America series is in the planning stages. I (Owen Reich) am assembling a small team to make an American version. And yes, it will be based in Tennessee.....

 

[october]

A Bonsai Art of America series is in the planning stages. I (Owen Reich) am assembling a small team to make an American version. And yes, it will be based in Tennessee.....

Outstanding! I follow both yours and Bjorn in the bonsai art of japan. However, as you know, material here in the states is sometimes lacking in quality, quantity and unfortunately, sometimes people's unwillingness to learn. Sometimes when watching the videos from Japan, material such as that seems so far out of reach for many. Many times, material like that is just not available and if it is, it commands incredible prices in the US. Especially in this part of the country. I look forward to seeing your work here in the US.

Rob

 

[Owen Reich]

This is not directed directly at you Rob, but an opinion I hold that partially responds to your post and others earlier in the thread:


The great trees are here. Especially when you account for wild collected trees in all types of ecosytems (not just the Rockies) from crab-apples in Minnesota to Buttonwoods in Florida. I see them as I bounce around the country and many are in private collections where the owners do not associate with their local bonsai clubs. Some are too big to transport. We can have those trees if for one, more good field production sites / collectors for bonsai are started / expanded / supported.

Yes, many of the trees I had the privilege of styling or maintaining are light-years ahead of what we have here in the States, but it is unfair to compare America to Japan as they have such a multi-faceted bonsai industry that has been in existence with not only growers, refiners, specialists, etc. but also customers who understand the value of the bonsai available. If we have that, the amazing trees will follow. A well-educated consumer will in my opinion spring for more expensive trees and other products. That is one of the reasons for the Bonsai Art of Japan series, the blog I operate, and the articles I write which I'm not paid for, but see as a benefit to the bonsai community and of course shameless self-promotion .

As for willingness, you are going to have people who just don't want their tree to die all the way to those pursuing the highest levels of self-expression and veneration of Nature. It is important for those of us who are at the forefront of increasing both the levels of understanding and enjoyment of this art to be optimistic and active in our approach to dealing with "civilians and neophytes". America has a great number of self-taught or very experienced bonsai enthusiasts who, by our cultural values are taught to be innovators and game-changers. This is a wonderful aspect of our culture as Americans have invented just about everything that is wonderful from the cotton engine to the MacBook Air I'm typing on now. However, bonsai has artistic principles that need to be understood well before breaking new ground and like any classic art, you copy the masters' work first, then move forward. Just because somebody has had bonsai for 40 years does not automatically make them an expert. I've seen many very crappy collections of bonsai in Japan where there was no mentor associated. Dali didn't start with melting clocks. That is why I study and will continue to study in Japan in the future. How we go from contemporary Japanese display to something akin to melting clocks is where I'd like to go in some of my creations in the future. Once you think you're a bad-ass at bonsai, you start the backward slide toward stagnation. To be clear, there are some excellent bonsai and bonsai professionals and "semi-pros" in America for sure.

 

[Owen Reich]

I just read the whole thread and wanted to clarify a few things. Bjorn and his wife Nanxi (from China) are currently living in Osaka and likely adding to their now stacks of degrees. Bjorn is starting a doctorate program in business. Bjorn (and I will quit speaking for him shortly) will be returning to America from time to time to teach. My guess is he will be in Japan for the long haul. I am back for a while now, but will return to Japan to continue my studies piece-meal like many others including Bjorn have done. I'm sure Bjorn didn't leave America because the bonsai here are "crappy" .

Earlier statements were made about the video series Bonsai Art of Japan. From the minute the idea was proposed, I jumped at the chance to be involved. Bjorn's editing ability and dedication to his series is second to none. We both had ideas constantly whirring around and frankly I'm surprised what was accomplished on our lunch breaks. We were working like indentured servants as bonsai apprentices and not just hanging out. The series did help take the edge off and I felt adding humor was important as bonsai can come off as a pretentious hobby sometimes. Bonsai should be fun. The series was inspired by Lindsay Farr's work and even though I poked fun, his work pushed people like Bjorn and I to continue to share first-hand experiences from Japan. Graham's series (which I also poked fun at) also has it's merits although I wish he'd shoot something using the better material he has on site sometimes and change the music . Another parody episode was partially filmed in November but I'm not sure if the Bonsai Hunter part has been made yet. Should be good....

 

[gergwebber]

wow.... could you pm me an autograph please?

 

[Owen Reich]

wow.... could you pm me an autograph please?

Only if you send me yours

 

[october]

Thanks Owen. I glad you decided to come to this site. Deeper insight into the art by those that have submerged themselves in bonsai is always a great addition here. I have no doubt and have seen incredible bonsai here in America and also Europe. I think we are improving, just a bit more slowly. Which is understandable given the reasons you stated. Whatever level people want to do bonsai is fine. Whether a small juniper, unstyled in a pot or a large specimen. When I said unwillingness to learn, I was speaking more about something along the lines of what Bjorn said in one of the videos. That sometimes the attitude of "I'm just going to do my own thing" when they have not been in bonsai for very long. I completely agree and have always subscribed to the theory that after you get a firm grasp on the principles of bonsai, then do what you think is right. Also, I have always thought that whatever tree is destined to be a bonsai, should become the best bonsai it can be. Which you would need to know the guidelines, but also know when to break them.

Once again, welcome to the site. I hope you will be posting some trees here and there as well.

Rob

 

[Bill S]

Heres the beef

Oh, come now... this sounds like "Old Man Talk"... Those kids will never
learn... you can't teach them a god-d@$m thing...

First let me say that the Bonsai trees of today are much better here in the
US than they were years ago... There is no comparison, period.
This is not because of "Old-Timers", somehow now, deciding not to do what
what they have been doing for years... on the contrary, it is because of those
same folks that you label as "wanting to do my own thing and I am going to do it".

They are the one's wondering why it takes fifty years to do something and are
instead figuring out "new" ways to accomplish something, in a much shorter
time... instead of butting their head against the wall, with an attitude of, "Well...
it's the way it has always been done, as well as the way I was taught..."

You talk about Kimura, as though he was somehow, part of the establishment
in Japan... On the contrary, He pretty much gave them the finger, his work
was not respected for a very long time... and arround some circles, I would
say it is still safe to say he is still not. He broke down barriers, and did things
that were not done in the Bonsai community.

Sorry, but with all due respect your whole post is bull...

Good grief, yours is the bull, the reason we don't have the quality of Japan is the time spent to get it. Stacy you and poink with, BS I can do it in half the time is a bunch of crap, this has nothing to do with someone being impatient and trying new things, jeesh new things here have been tried in Japan probably 50 years ago. It's a kid thing to call someone an old man and poo poo tried and true. If you think making a bunch of mistakes that have been done already makes things improve, you keep on making those mistakes. Kiddo.

 

[Bill S]

Owen nice to see you stop by, as I read I was going to let them know what a great talk you gave our club, and the others were pretty happy with the workshop. Thanks for the visit to Springfield. I am still looking for the name of that Satsuki as soon as I get it I will email you the details so we can find out about the color issue.

Guys Owens the real thing, have him to your club or garden and your trees will be the better for it.

 

[Adair M]

For what it's worth:

Boon told me that his teacher in Japan, Kihacharo Kayama, was showing trees that were started in training by his great-grandfather.

We just don't have any trees in the USA that have been in training that long. (Unless they're imported.)

 

[Poink88]

For what it's worth:

Boon told me that his teacher in Japan, Kihacharo Kayama, was showing trees that were started in training by his great-grandfather.

We just don't have any trees in the USA that have been in training that long. (Unless they're imported.)

That was never questioned. What we have to focus on is realizing & appreciating what we have because we have lots of trees with great potential...everywhere, we just need to recognize it.

Now if you just want great pre-bonsai as you will see in Japan nurseries then yes, you may get disappointed.

 

[Anthony]

Fascinating!

Hello Owen, nice to see you here.

Hmm - Horticulture and some amount of sensitivity to Design, by Hobby folk, time to do, and time to work. Time to evolve the trees into what you love in your home country.
Making standards, and trying to evolve them to as high as the Japanese or Chinese keep them.

Time to do, versus time to work.

We have the same problem with Fine Art, those who study for 7+ years to draw and paint at very high standards [ Old Masters of Europe set the standards here.]
With folk who are hobbyists trying to match.

Not really possible, Fine Artists study 7 days a week at a minimum of 12 hrs daily.

Try not to beat yourselves up so much, want to match Murata or others, go to Japan and study for x years.
You guys have the ability, that is most obvious, just not as much time.
Good Day.
Anthony.

* Now what about us and no teachers, just books and images - chuckle.