Zelkova nire

[baron]

Then why do they have different leaves?
I have a chinese elm and what was sold to me as a Zelkova Nire (pictured above) and the leaves are very different looking at them side by side.
Also the Chinese elm new shoots are red'ish while the Zelkova's are green.

Ulmus species and in particular Ulmus parvifolia/Chinese Elm are often confused with Zelkova species, in particular Zelkova serrata/Japanese Elm. Zelkova are classed as a seperate genus to Ulmus as they have fruits that are unwinged as opposed to the winged friuts of Ulmus. Zelkova also differ in that they have single-toothed leaves whereas Ulmus have double-toothed leaves.

from http://www.bonsai4me.com/SpeciesGuide/Ulmus.html

 

[leatherback]

Then why do they have different leaves?

There is such a thing as zelkova And they have very different leaves from the chinese elms.

 

[hemmy]

I thought @AlainK had a good explanation on the naming confusion in this post (post #9):

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/winged-bark-zelkova-or-am-i-a-wing-nut.31990/#post-537537

 

[baron]

There is such a thing as zelkova And they have very different leaves from the chinese elms.

Ok, so it's a Zelkova but not a Serrata.. and not a 'nire'? So then what is it?

 

[petegreg]

I'm thinking Ulmus parvifolia 'Corticosa' (Cork Bark Chinese Elm).
Definately not a Zelkova.

This is a Zelkova Nire.

View attachment 189885View attachment 189886

I have a similar species, coming from a german e-shop labeled as Zelkova nire. The member of this forum @dirk hoorelbeke identified is as Ulmus glabra.

 

[AlainK]

Ok, so it's a Zelkova but not a Serrata.. and not a 'nire'? So then what is it?

Er... sorry to insist, but this is definitely not a Zelkova.

It's an Ulmus of some kind, a cultivar or subspecies of Ulmus parvifolia probaly.

Ulmus x whateverensis or something , but NOT A ZELKOVA!!!

Joking, of course, but serious too

 

[baron]

Er... sorry to insist, but this is definitely not a Zelkova.

It's an Ulmus of some kind, a cultivar or subspecies of Ulmus parvifolia probaly.

Ulmus x whateverensis or something , but NOT A ZELKOVA!!!

Joking, of course, but serious too

The Op's tree is definately an ELM (cork bark).
The one I posted and was referring to however is a Zelkova for sure...

 

[hemmy]

The one I posted and was referring to however is a Zelkova for sure...

Can you post some good closeup photos of individual leaves from your Post #39 elm?

 

[BobbyLane]

i have a couple of the same variety. sold to me as Chinese cork bark elms. it takes time to develop the corky bark...
8988531892_ff3f64d867_c by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

it was chopped and has spent around three years in the ground
IMAG2746 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

this was it a few weeks ago after i dug it up, sorted out the roots and placed it back in the ground, you can see the texture of the bark slightly changing
20180411_194529 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

20180413_133610 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

this is another one, same variety....its the centre tree, btw those are all Cork bark elms in that grove, they are also the same type, yet to develop the bark
10987314_789545444443832_9204026961203849742_n by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

its spent about a couple years in the ground, i think the bark is becoming plated, its hard to say
20180413_135212 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[baron]

leaves on what was sold as Zelkova Nire



Ulmus Parf. leaves

 

[petegreg]

I was a little disillusioned hearing mine is U. glabra, not Z. nire. Maybe because of the seller I used to trust. But it's got a good bark and can be developed into a nice tree and I like it as it is.
Ulmus glabra leaves

 

[BobbyLane]

I'm thinking Ulmus parvifolia 'Corticosa' (Cork Bark Chinese Elm).
Definately not a Zelkova.

This is a Zelkova Nire.

View attachment 189885View attachment 189886

tbh the leaves on yours look more like some variety of european elm, where did you get it?

this is my european field elm leaf
IMG_4171 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[baron]

tbh the leaves on yours look more like some variety of european elm, where did you get it?

this is my european field elm leaf
IMG_4171 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

https://bonsaischule.de/en/shop/64e8fa05-c8c5-4118-8d9d-59ffff24ed96.html

You might be on to something.
When I google European Field Elm I do find similar leaves and wingy/corky braches..

 

[petegreg]

https://bonsaischule.de/en/shop/64e8fa05-c8c5-4118-8d9d-59ffff24ed96.html

Wow, the same source.?

 

[BobbyLane]

https://bonsaischule.de/en/shop/64e8fa05-c8c5-4118-8d9d-59ffff24ed96.html

ok i know the site. it looks like some form of winged elm

 

[hemmy]

leaves on what was sold as Zelkova Nire

View attachment 190120

Your “Zelkova nire” pic appears to have doubly serrated leaves which I think would preclude it from being in the Zelkova genus.

https://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/ul-ze1.htm


Check out the pics of my Ulmus davidiana which was also sold as a Z. nire from a bonsai dealer. It looks similar to yours and if you search google images for U. davidiana there are some landscape trees with winged branches like yours.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/winged-bark-zelkova-or-am-i-a-wing-nut.31990/#post-537493

 

[Davidlpf]

I'm thinking Ulmus parvifolia 'Corticosa' (Cork Bark Chinese Elm).
Definately not a Zelkova.

This is a Zelkova Nire.

View attachment 189885View attachment 189886

Look at these English elms growing freely in Spain, the look very similar yours.

Greetings

P.S. More photos here click,click

 

[AlainK]

I also noticed that on Acer campestre in hot, dry climates.

 

[petegreg]

I also noticed that on Acer campestre in hot, dry climates.

Right...been preparing one field maple with corky branches for collecting for two years. Next spring...

 

[defra]

Whoa i missed a few posts !
Nice tree's @BobbyLane as always!

My tree is ulmus for sure!
I gotta stay outside with my pruners al season long for this little one irs growing like a weed ☺



Lots of new buds popped !

Gave it a first round of pruning!
I hope to get a back branch and another front left/right branch on the trunk between the first right branch and the apex