Do you come to a discussion forum for the truth or an attaboy?

[Poink88]

Just thought it is time to resurrect this old thread.

Ask ourselves honestly..."Do you come to a discussion forum for the truth or an attaboy?"

 

[GrimLore]

I come here for neither - I come here to share and most importantly learn

 

[pmalelis]

Just thought it is time to resurrect this old thread.

Ask ourselves honestly..."Do you come to a discussion forum for the truth or an attaboy?"

I come for insight, but attaboys do make us feel good!

 

[Vance Wood]

I come for insight, but attaboys do make us feel good!

Most come for the discussion, some come for the atta-boys, some come to destroy someone else, some are like deer in the head lights, but no one comes because they like being called low down and foul smelling, or even worse; being proved to be low down and foul smelling. LOL Some come because they like to stir up trouble like sticking a twig in an ant's nest or throwing rocks at hornets. Some don't know and don't know they don't know but they want you to believe they do.

Some come because they think, having read every book on bonsai in the Western World, somehow they have attained all knowledge bonsai that is attainable, and it is their calling in life to inform you how much they know. What they don't know they will make up, thinking that because they know so much, surly what they think must be the way it is. It is after all a gift. Maybe this year they will get their first bonsai to work on.

 

[Anthony]

Dario;

to share, but I really don't care for arguments and try to be as - diplomatic - as I can be [ as opposed to the word - politician - which for us is butt kisser ]

On my side, you have to be independent and adaptable, and to be frank I enjoy being that way. So even if cocopeat is easy to purchase, I will still help make compost.

We are also lucky down here, many untested trees/shrubs / herbal types, and no one has to stick with the typical. Might take many lifetimes but it is more satisfying. To research and discover................................ wunnerful!!!!!!!
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Nybonsai12]

I come here to learn so I hope I am provided with the truth.

Whether I get an "attaboy" or a "your tree is a turd " I consider it part of the learning process. I've gotten both while here and it's made me learn and hopefully improve.

 

[Victrinia Ridgeway]

Truth is subjective and in the case of this art very relative sometimes... The 'truth' some people offer is very colored by their experience and whatever prejudices we bring to the table in the effort to be 'original'. Someone with no experience sees everything with an eye for possibility. Some with a small amount of experience want to make sure that everyone who knows less than they do, knows just how smart they are. Some with great skill seasoned with wisdom take people wherever they are at, and contribute to their betterment. Not for vanity, but for the sake of teaching. And most of us are just here for the community. Because we're all tree nerds and we're proud of it.

Sometimes I come and post things, not for an attaboy, or the 'truth'... but just to share something with the community... because I'm terribly fond of you all.

Victrinia

 

[Vance Wood]

Truth is subjective and in the case of this art very relative sometimes... The 'truth' some people offer is very colored by their experience and whatever prejudices we bring to the table in the effort to be 'original'. Someone with no experience sees everything with an eye for possibility. Some with a small amount of experience want to make sure that everyone who knows less than they do, knows just how smart they are. Some with great skill seasoned with wisdom take people wherever they are at, and contribute to their betterment. Not for vanity, but for the sake of teaching. And most of us are just here for the community. Because we're all tree nerds and we're proud of it.

Sometimes I come and post things, not for an attaboy, or the 'truth'... but just to share something with the community... because I'm terribly fond of you all.

Victrinia

What she said.

 

[berobinson82]

I teach martial arts. I have students who are 5 years old and students who've been practiced for 15+ years. I'm a master instructor; certified.

The way I motivate my national competitors and my 5 year olds are somewhat different.

I tend to raise my voice with all of them, but some respond better to gentle suggestion and reinforcement. The ol' 3 part system:
1. Great try, not everyone does.
2. You could improve by XYZ
3. I'm sure you'll get it. Keep up the good work.

Now, while this is a loose example, I think it addresses the heart of the question.

Some coaches are nasty, harsh, angry people. If their program produces results, then their schools are always full, no matter their manner.

When we come here seeking free advice from tenured veterans, we must set ego aside and learn the hard lessons... "Tough Love" was the right way to put it.

Thin skinned folks won't last as apprentices in Japan right? It doesn't seem to work here either.

Now, contrast this board to weetrees.co.uk... They are such pleasant people comparatively. Lots of "attaboys" even on material that may be lackluster.

So then, I come here for advice no matter how I can get it. My club has less expertise than does this forum. Regardless, it's always nice to get an 'attaboy' every now and then.

Rambling as always,

B

 

[Dirty Nails]

Inspiration move me brightly
Light the song with sense and color hold away despair
More than this I will not ask, faced with mysteries dark and vast
Statements just seem vain at last
Some rise, some fall some climb to get to Terrapin
Counting stars by candle light all are dim but one is bright
The spiral light of Venus rising first and shining best
Oh from the northwest corner of a brand new cresent moon
crickets and cicadas sing a rare and different tune
Terrapin station.

 

[Paradox]

I come here to learn about trees in pots and to hopefully get advice on mine when I need it/ask.
I fully acknowledge that many/most of my trees are not great material. I may or may not be able to improve them, but over time Ill learn and get brave enough to get better material.

I dont mind being told that my tree isnt good. Id rather have an honest answer than sugar coated bullshit. Id also like to know why its good or bad so that I can learn from it. However Im much more apt to listen if I am not being talked down to or belittled. Ill also have more respect for the person giving the advice if they dont talk down to me. I am an adult, treat me like one.

I joined a club a few months ago. They had a "bring your own tree to work on" night. I brought a San Jose juniper that Id bought from a nursery. Its not great material and its definitely difficult material. I got good, objective advice from the more experienced members. One older gentleman spent quite a bit of time looking at my tree and offering advice. Later I found out that not only was he the original founder of the club, be he is also quite well known in the bonsai community, having given lectures and workshops throughout the U.S.. He never once talked down to me or belittled me or my tree. He was just there to offer advice on direction for the tree and to help me learn. I appreciated that.

 

[Smoke]

I dont mind being told that my tree isnt good. Id rather have an honest answer than sugar coated bullshit. Id also like to know why its good or bad so that I can learn from it. However Im much more apt to listen if I am not being talked down to or belittled. Ill also have more respect for the person giving the advice if they dont talk down to me. I am an adult, treat me like one.

I don't disagree with that at all. I have found, for me anyway, to be at the the forefront of some of the escapades around here. If one really looks at the facts, they can't be disputed......but they are. Thats where things start to go wrong.

Someone posts a tree, I ask a question, someone totally unrelated from the discussion, doesn't like the way I ask the question and so makes a sarcastic remark about how I am condescending. A few friends or like minded people glam on. Next thing you know, the question never got answered and the OP has no idea what happened and the thread turns ugly.

Then to top it all off a week or two later people that have one or two posts over three years will say something like "this kind of behaviour is why I don't post here".

Those kind of comments should just be left to themselves. They then engage in the same behaviour they are trying to tell you they deplore.


I like your story about the guy who took the time to answer your questions and took time to offer advice. I have no idea about what you brought or how good or bad the material was/is. All I know is after about ten minutes conversing with someone in the know, there are a couple of important questions that can be asked right then and there and have every idea about the stock brought to the forefront.

Would "you" work on this piece of material and why

Would "you" have bought this material and why

Am "I" wasting my time with this piece of material.

The answers to those questions are very easy to answer on the internet. Not so much standing in front of some guy holding his tree in his hands looking you in the eye. If the guy giving advice is really as good as you think they are they will tell you the truth. If they don't, they will never be any use to you.

 

[Anthony]

Paradox,

not to sound like the eternal optimist. Bonsai is just design, since a tree can assume many shapes to live or survive in nature.

Thus, one can reduce trees to just roots, or stumps, airlayers, cuttings and start over.
Experience will tell you what to do.

So I would say --- brave enough to - grow - another one.

Since the work of Bonsai4me and a few quiet folk in Canada/Russia, I also no longer take folk who claim it would take too long to grow, seriously.
{ Mature bark and such, is another situation, more time.]

The satisfaction that comes from growing as opposed to buying is amazing.
BUT that is probably just a few of us.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[Smoke]

I come here to learn about trees in pots and to hopefully get advice on mine when I need it/ask.
I fully acknowledge that many/most of my trees are not great material. I may or may not be able to improve them, but over time Ill learn and get brave enough to get better material.

You have summed your bonsai career in a couple sentances. You have already identified where the problem lies. You know you don't have good material. That is a plus. Many that post here think they have something great when they don't.

I still have no clue what your problem is, shortage of material, distance, money, no eye, but the fact is it will be up to you to fix whatever it is that is keeping you from reaching your goal. What ever that is, it will not be found on a discussion forum. Thats "my" point.

 

[Vance Wood]

You have summed your bonsai career in a couple sentances. You have already identified where the problem lies. You know you don't have good material. That is a plus. Many that post here think they have something great when they don't.

I still have no clue what your problem is, shortage of material, distance, money, no eye, but the fact is it will be up to you to fix whatever it is that is keeping you from reaching your goal. What ever that is, it will not be found on a discussion forum. Thats "my" point.

On purpose or by accident you hit the pivotal concept in all of this; reaching your goal. I think that sometimes we are so busy trying to achieve our own goal, or making the assumption that we have, we tend to judge other people's goals by our own. Everyone has the right to view bonsai in their own terms, they just have to learn that their level or achievement my be at odds to a vast majority of the community they are communicating with. The only other thing that has a place in a community discussion is; that it is very difficult to convince experienced people that a turd is a three layer wedding cake.

 

[Paradox]

You have summed your bonsai career in a couple sentances. You have already identified where the problem lies. You know you don't have good material. That is a plus. Many that post here think they have something great when they don't.

I still have no clue what your problem is, shortage of material, distance, money, no eye, but the fact is it will be up to you to fix whatever it is that is keeping you from reaching your goal. What ever that is, it will not be found on a discussion forum. Thats "my" point.

I dont really consider my situation to be a "problem" per se. It is what it is and only time working with trees is going to resolve it.

BTW, I was just responding to the fact that this thread was resurrected. I do agree though that lately threads seem to blow up all too often and the discussion goes to hell.

 

[Smoke]

Problem:

In reading, a problem is a combination of a series of words with the overall plotline, which the reader must attempt to decipher

I fully acknowledge that many/most of my trees are not great material. I may or may not be able to improve them, but over time Ill learn and get brave enough to get better material.

To this reader that sounds like a problem. To resolve that problem one will have to make decisions, thus resolving the problem. We need a "no spin zone here!"

I have a problem with squirrels. I will have to make a decision on how I will resolve my problem.

 

[Smoke]

I do agree though that lately threads seem to blow up all too often and the discussion goes to hell.

....and why do you think that is?

 

[GerhardG]

Hi (Smoke)

I only read the first page and would like to comment on that.

Thanks to an internet connection I have learned (not mastered) fly fishing and bonsai in a vacuum.
I have since learned that the vacuum as far as bonsai is concerned was not that great, but since I missed the local scene I "grew up" with better habits.

I know an over-potted stick when I see one, and exposure to all you fine people with your beautiful trees keep my standards high.

IMHO the reason for everybody being a bit feisty is simply the world going to hell in a handcart.......

Thanks
Gerhard

 

[Anthony]

Feisty - why - por que ----------> the information needs to be upgraded.

One can only talk about soil mixes for so long, need to move onto Design. chuckle.
Fare ye well.
Good Morning
Anthony