Do you come to a discussion forum for the truth or an attaboy?

[october]

Wow... They should make this thread into a movie..lol... The ups, the downs, the laughter, the crying, the despair, the rejoicing, third world countries, domestic violence, the reinvention of the wheel...One thing though.. What about bonsai?

Rob

 

[Paradox]

This might be a good time to post some three year old projects?

Plain and simple, I dont have anything with any real progression to show yet. You and I both know that a newbie that started 3 years ago not knowing the first thing about keeping trees alive in pots let alone developing a tree most likely wont have hardly any sort of progression on anything yet.

Ive spent the last 3 years absorbing as much info as I can and experimenting on trees. I dont have a mentor that could have shown me what to do. Ive had to learn on my own so far.

Here is what I have done. Why Im posting this or why you would care, I dont know but here goes anyway.......

Year 1. Acquired a few trees of different species. Kept them alive. Bought lots of books. Did lots and lots and lots of reading books and forums. Did some branch pruning on a few trees.

Year 2. Repotted the trees I had into containers more suitable for training pots. Acquired a few more of different species. Did some branch pruning on trees re-potted last year. Experimented on a pine - removed all the buds on a couple of branches to see what it would do. Thinned out the foliage on some of the other trees. Continued to keep trees alive. Experimented with winter survival - left some trees out to see if they would make it. Did some wiring on a couple of trees. Killed a couple. Did more reading and re-read all my books.

Year 3. Got rid of some of the trees that Id decided were mistakes. Repotted all the rest of the trees I had. Got a couple new species to start learning. Chopped a couple of trees. Did more branch pruning on some of the trees. Did more wiring. Killed one pine. Started to learn about candle pruning pines - did some candle pruning on 3 different species to see what they would do. Went to a bonsai nursery and bought a couple of JBP pre-bonsai. Joined ABS. Joined a club.

Most of my time has been just learning to keep different species alive while reading about the timing of things for those species and lots and lots of reading.

The tree that Ive had the longest, I got in 2011. I removed a couple of branches in 2011 then I just left it alone. I repotted it in 2012 and left it alone to recover except for the 2 branches I removed all the buds from. In 2013 I removed 2 more branches. I am going very slow with it so it doesnt have much progression yet if any really. So I just dont feel like I have anything to show yet.

 

[Vance Wood]

Wow... They should make this thread into a movie..lol... The ups, the downs, the laughter, the crying, the despair, the rejoicing, third world countries, domestic violence, the reinvention of the wheel...One thing though.. What about bonsai?

Rob

Sometimes when you have a leaky toilette it tends to dominate the conversation.

 

[Anthony]

Analysis of specimen - Dario - please read in a robotic voice - working

[1] Eager and Enthusiastic

[2] Sharing - as in information

[3] Experience - growing and expanding.

Problem

Elder Gods desire more viewing, less communication

Solution -

[1] Specimen needs a more visual form of education.
Suggestion show more examples of why or how.

Example -

Found image of Texas Ebony.
Size of pot used to grow as of possibly 10 years ago.
Previously grown in a 6 x 4 x 1" deep bonsai pot.
As of 2008

Will show further history in Tropical Section as new images become available.

Shown as an example that one can grow a tree from seedling to Bonsai in a lifetime in a pot.

1980 to present.
Called --------- Natural Style
Ending Report.
Good Afternoon
Anthony ------------------> sent with smiles.

* There is also an image of this Texas Ebony in the ABS library, I believe.

 

[Paradox]

Lol @ Anthony

 

[Poink88]

Lol @ Anthony

Same here LOL. Hard to post long on phone...while at oncology clinic.

 

[Poink88]

Solution -

[1] Specimen needs a more visual form of education.
Suggestion show more examples of why or how.

Of all the newbies here, I probably posted the most trees and several progression. Not much yet since I am less than 2 years in this hobby but I've done in my first year...

- killed lots of trees
- read a lot
- posted a lot
- bought nursery trees
- bought box store trees
- bought online trees
- collected lots of trees
- collected more bonsai tools
- experimented with various soil mixes
- learned how to water
- controlled various pests
- overwintered plants
- repotted plants
- root and trunk chopped trees
- reproduced plants via cuttings (branch and root)
- pruned
- wired
- bent trees
- carved
- grafted
- air layered
- experimented

...BUT to some I haven't done anything yet because my trees are not yet in their proper bonsai pot. That is fine. It will come...promise.

 

[sherwoodschwartz]

Of all the newbies here, I probably posted the most trees and several progression. Not much yet since I am less than 2 years in this hobby but I've done in my first year...

- killed lots of trees
- read a lot
- posted a lot
- bought nursery trees
- bought box store trees
- bought online trees
- collected lots of trees
- collected more bonsai tools
- experimented with various soil mixes
- learned how to water
- controlled various pests
- overwintered plants
- repotted plants
- root and trunk chopped trees
- reproduced plants via cuttings (branch and root)
- pruned
- wired
- bent trees
- carved
- grafted
- air layered
- experimented

...BUT to some I haven't done anything yet because my trees are not yet in their proper bonsai pot. That is fine. It will come...promise.

and that's great. really. you have gone balls to the wall. good for you. but there's a missing ingredient in there. time. i know that sticks in your craw, but there it is. you have done a lot of bonsai-esque related things to plants. but you simply haven't had enough time to see how well these things work. it can take a few years for a plant to finally die because of some insult.

anyone can claim knowledge second hand. those who have a body of work proven over decades are simply more respected and their advice more reliable. that this is somehow debatable is strange to me.

 

[Smoke]

Sorry but I disagree. Some takes time to sink in before you see the direction to take. Well that is the case with me at least.

I Hopefully when we are as experienced as you, your statement will become true for us too. Something to look forward to.

You see what you did? You made a defensive attack thinking that not everyone will see as I do, then you countered with "case with me at least". Is that a caveat? You don't even believe the things you say.......

 

[Poink88]

You see what you did? You made a defensive attack thinking that not everyone will see as I do, then you countered with "case with me at least". Is that a caveat? You don't even believe the things you say.......

I am confused. What I said is all there is. If I want to say something, I just say it...I am not as politically correct as I want to be (that is my curse). If I attack you, believe me, you will know.

In this case, there is no attack, just stating how it is with me and some of my plants.

 

[drew33998]

Here is the crux of the matter. You mentioned thousands and then $500.00 twice. Do you feel if you spend that much your material will be better?

We have been down this road before. Spending huge sums of money does not guarentee results. It just makes failure hurt more. In all my ranting over the last couple days, I have never mentioned that the fix all to any problem was to spend lots of money. The fix is just buying the best material you can afford. Take the guy that spent $100.00 on the maple with the slingshot trunk. In one post here he could have gotten 20 replies on what to buy and what not to buy.
Knowing when to be defensive, because you are armed with the knowledge to back it up and being defensive when one does not have a clue what they are talking about and just takes it personal is two different things.

You are correct. Slingshot was a rookie mistake on my part. One of many I am sure to make over the coming years. Hard truth however is better than being led down a stray path(unless there is a yamadori at the end). Thanks for providing it. BTW Slingshot will provide many cuttings to root this coming year which shall then be field grown, given the tree is healthy. As a start.

 

[drew33998]

Truth is subjective and in the case of this art very relative sometimes... The 'truth' some people offer is very colored by their experience and whatever prejudices we bring to the table in the effort to be 'original'. Someone with no experience sees everything with an eye for possibility. Some with a small amount of experience want to make sure that everyone who knows less than they do, knows just how smart they are. Some with great skill seasoned with wisdom take people wherever they are at, and contribute to their betterment. Not for vanity, but for the sake of teaching. And most of us are just here for the community. Because we're all tree nerds and we're proud of it.

Sometimes I come and post things, not for an attaboy, or the 'truth'... but just to share something with the community... "
Victrinia

This.

Plan of attack.
1. Read/Learn, review, apply.
2. Assess outcome, was outcome as expected? Why/why not?
3. How can outcome be improved?
4. Back to number one.

 

[mat]

I am confused. What I said is all there is. If I want to say something, I just say it...I am not as politically correct as I want to be (that is my curse). If I attack you, believe me, you will know.

In this case, there is no attack, just stating how it is with me and some of my plants.

I don't think anyone is questioning that when you want to say something, you say it. I think the criticism is more centered around the fact that you don't seem to have a filter in place about when to say something and when to just stay quiet and let those who are more experienced respond.

 

[GerhardG]

That's nice; assuming you know what you are talking about. I guess most of my problems are with people who claim all of this knowledge and are quick at telling people what to do, how to do it, and when to do it but have never posted a single photo of an example of their own work.

Hi Vance

I think you misunderstood what I meant:

I believe, same applies to everything. Sometimes, even the snotty newbie have something credible to share (but it is very hard for some to accept that).

This can be the case.......once in a while maybe

And so we see the mind set involved in the invention of the Square Wheel. The undying belief that everything you do, or think, or suggest is absolutely right just because it was your idea. Hell; with the idea that you have absolutely no proof of anything you say it is only necessary that you say it because if you say it------it must be true.

And this is VERY true

Since you and Dario are definitely on opposite ends of this "discussion" I find it amusing and typical of life that there is truth in both your statements.

That said.....

BTW, that is how kids are raised in most 3rd world countries...not a very good model.

Born, raised and living in the 3rd world..........and I think you are full of it......

 

[Anthony]

Just an aside,

isn't the term -3rd world - meant to indicate, the level of technology present ?

"Technology does not a civilisation make"

Wisdom and Experience transcends - 3rd world .

According to the British we lost our 3rd world status sometime in the 70's, must have been our
the oil refineries [ we had 2.] chuckle.

Please read the above with a smile on the face, no insult or negative taken to the 3rd world bit.

IMPORTANT
Bonsai is 3 to 5 years first as Horticulture - keeping the tree healthy and alive.
Then becomes Design. Which hopefully will be studied and not fudged.

In order to not stagnate, I suggest you guys find some one who can draw well, and works with trees as would a landscape artist.

Otherwise, all you will do is make 2nd hand Japanese designs [ or Chinese ] and get upset.
Younger folk [ to Bonsai ] will at first flock to you, admire you.
Admiration will soon turn to Disgust, as they realise all you can do is pale shade copy.

Note the comment made on poor Mr.Naka, a few weeks ago - something like he was - an ambassador .........

In Bonsai you get old, old in ideas and are forgotton ------------ the way of a luxury hobby.
Good Morning.
Anthony

 

[Poink88]

Born, raised and living in the 3rd world..........and I think you are full of it......

It is a mistake to make a broad statement but what I said is true especially in the context of suppressing kids/newbies. I apologize to everyone I offended.