Path to JBP bonsai in 10 years

[Cajunrider]

A bit about me first:

• I'm 60+ and hope to get a JBP bonsai or two to tend to when I retire in less than 10 years. It doesn't need to be a mature bonsai by then but at least resemble a bonsai JBP.
• I don't like buying a matured bonsai or any thing for that matter and simply be a keeper. No matter how beautiful it is, it simply will not do. I'd like to create it. Whatever mistake I make I'll laugh at it later.
• I'm in zone 9a going to zone 6 later in life.
• My budget for the JBP project is $100 for the tree(s) only.

Can you help me find the right progression to achieve my goal? At this stage in life, I can't afford foolish youthful mistakes plus why not learn from others? At my age, I think starting from seeds/seedlings is out. I may do that just to learn to keep JBP alive but really don't expect to get anything decent in that short a time. BTW, yes I have searched for JBP progression on-line and in books. I have some ideas but am seeking more from people who know bonsai a whole lot more than I do.

BNutters please come to my help.

 

[Bananaman]

"Bonsai is directly proportional to the money invested in it."

For a pine, 100.00 is not very much money to invest on a worthy piece of material. In California, one may be able to find a really great shohin for that kind of money but even here in the land of Pine paradise, 100.00 dollars will get you inverse taper, poorly proportioned branches in the wrong places, and a pretty small trunk with no taper and terrible roots. I'm 63 and have no illusions of grandeur, so a really great pine is not in my future either.

 

[Cajunrider]

"Bonsai is directly proportional to the money invested in it."

For a pine, 100.00 is not very much money to invest on a worthy piece of material. In California, one may be able to find a really great shohin for that kind of money but even here in the land of Pine paradise, 100.00 dollars will get you inverse taper, poorly proportioned branches in the wrong places, and a pretty small trunk with no taper and terrible roots. I'm 63 and have no illusions of grandeur, so a really great pine is not in my future either.

My concern is that I spend a great deal of money on a good tree and just then be a keeper at best or proceed to ruin or kill it with my lack of knowledge at worst. If $100 get me to play with a nursery JBP, so be it I guess.

PS: I have no illusion of grandeur either. Right now I just hope some day soon to be grandpa

 

[Adair M]

Since I can tell from the nature of this post that you really have no clue about JBP bonsai, what you need is education more than a tree. You simply don’t know what you don’t know. I’m not being insulting, just honest.

Once you learn a bit about JBP, how to grow them, how to refine them, how to maintain them, then you will be able to access whether your goal/plan is reasonable.

I suggest that you rent and study Boon’s JBP video series on his website. He explains the things that need to be done for each season of the year. He does not go into the growing aspect in the series, it assumes you start with a nursery plant. Renting the video series is very affordable. Go to www.bonsaiboon.com

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Listening to what you are saying, why Japanese black pine? Expensive starter material, difficult to develop and hard to maintain.

For the same money you can get a lot more traction buying a decent shimpaku pre-bonsai.

 

[Adair M]

And while I’m at it, do not try to fool yourself into believing that this website, forum, will teach you everything you should know. BonsaiNut is a wonderful resource, but it’s far better to learn from others. See the trees. Learn how they do it. In person. I just learned something this past weekend, at a show talking with a couple guys who studied in Japan. Not in a class, not in a workshop, just saw something in a tree they had styled, and it caught my attention. We’re always learning!

 

[KeithE]

Tiger bait? What part of the bayou do you live in? I'm from NOLA.

Based on this statement: "It doesn't need to be a mature bonsai by then but at least resemble a bonsai JBP". Sounds like you are aware that 'finished' pines take decades to develop (thus the grumblings). 10 years is more than reasonable to meet your modest goals. In 5 years you can be on your way to a great little tree.
$100 is plenty. You have the advantage of an excellent climate for JBP, but you mentioned you're moving north. You're going the wrong way! Based on your stipulations, you are limited to growing a shohin size from seedlings (or getting very lucky by finding a good deal on a starter tree from a local club/garden shop).
Since you don't have experience growing from seed your best bet is to order two pine starters from pre-bonsai mark. Visit local Asian market and grab two 8in colanders, slip pines into colander and secure. Place in full sun and water (very) often.
Return here with pics so these fine gents can guide you to the promise land.

 

[Cajunrider]

Since I can tell from the nature of this post that you really have no clue about JBP bonsai, what you need is education more than a tree. You simply don’t know what you don’t know. I’m not being insulting, just honest.

Once you learn a bit about JBP, how to grow them, how to refine them, how to maintain them, then you will be able to access whether your goal/plan is reasonable.

I suggest that you rent and study Boon’s JBP video series on his website. He explains the things that need to be done for each season of the year. He does not go into the growing aspect in the series, it assumes you start with a nursery plant. Renting the video series is very affordable. Go to www.bonsaiboon.com

You are absolutely right. I don't have a clue but like with anything in my life, I am willing to learn, to do the work, know my limitation, and enjoy the journey. I am actually pretty good at many other things but bonsai just isn't one of them. It will simply be a hobby picked up late in life to enjoy. My goal with JBP is modest: a tree I can look at and smile at my mistakes along with seeing my progress. It certainly is not for wowing anyone. Come to think of it, that's my goal for all my bonsai tree.

 

[Cajunrider]

Tiger bait? What part of the bayou do you live in? I'm from NOLA.

Based on this statement: "It doesn't need to be a mature bonsai by then but at least resemble a bonsai JBP". Sounds like you are aware that 'finished' pines take decades to develop (thus the grumblings). 10 years is more than reasonable to meet your modest goals. In 5 years you can be on your way to a great little tree.
$100 is plenty. You have the advantage of an excellent climate for JBP, but you mentioned you're moving north. You're going the wrong way! Based on your stipulations, you are limited to growing a shohin size from seedlings (or getting very lucky by finding a good deal on a starter tree from a local club/garden shop).
Since you don't have experience growing from seed your best bet is to order two pine starters from pre-bonsai mark. Visit local Asian market and grab two 8in colanders, slip pines into colander and secure. Place in full sun and water (very) often.
Return here with pics so these fine gents can guide you to the promise land.

Lake Charles here.
Right now my thinking is go to Houston where I know a few nurseries that have JBP and pick up a couple 2-3 ft one for $50 a piece. I'll put them in colanders and have fun learning to keep them alive and learn about JBP along the way. Then a couple years from now, if I still like JBP, spend the money to get a good pre-bonsai for the next phase. If not, I still have two to play with along with a whole bunch of other trees I am attempting.

Geaux Tiger! Slaughter the Knights!

 

[coh]

JBP should be OK in zone 6 (you said Pennsylvania, right?), you'll just have to provide winter protection. Growth will not be as vigorous and candle cutting will be performed much earlier to allow time for new shoots to develop. I do candle cutting around here in early to mid June.

Are you a member of any clubs or do you have any clubs nearby? You can sometimes find good deals on stock trees or trees that have had some development time put into them (previous owners have too many trees or are getting out of the hobby, etc). I'd recommend getting at least 2 - one that is somewhat more developed (or even nearly "finished") that you can work on maintaining (candle pruning, needle pulling, etc) and one that is more of a stock plant that you'll develop over time.

 

[Cajunrider]

JBP should be OK in zone 6 (you said Pennsylvania, right?), you'll just have to provide winter protection. Growth will not be as vigorous and candle cutting will be performed much earlier to allow time for new shoots to develop. I do candle cutting around here in early to mid June.

Are you a member of any clubs or do you have any clubs nearby? You can sometimes find good deals on stock trees or trees that have had some development time put into them (previous owners have too many trees or are getting out of the hobby, etc). I'd recommend getting at least 2 - one that is somewhat more developed (or even nearly "finished") that you can work on maintaining (candle pruning, needle pulling, etc) and one that is more of a stock plant that you'll develop over time.

My town has a club that I'm thinking about joining next year.

 

[KeithE]

Lake Charles here.
Right now my thinking is go to Houston where I know a few nurseries that have JBP and pick up a couple 2-3 ft one for $50 a piece. I'll put them in colanders and have fun learning to keep them alive and learn about JBP along the way. Then a couple years from now, if I still like JBP, spend the money to get a good pre-bonsai for the next phase. If not, I still have two to play with along with a whole bunch of other trees I am attempting.

Geaux Tiger! Slaughter the Knights!

Sounds like you have a solid plan. Tons of options in the Houston area. Just keep in mind, starting with that size and type of material can be more difficult than starting from scratch... Poor roots in poor soil, bad taper, lack of movement, no low branching. So just choose wisely and good luck! Tigahs and Coach O will take care of the knights.

 

[Cajunrider]

Sounds like you have a solid plan. Tons of options in the Houston area. Just keep in mind, starting with that size and type of material can be more difficult than starting from scratch... Poor roots in poor soil, bad taper, lack of movement, no low branching. So just choose wisely and good luck! Tigahs and Coach O will take care of the knights.

I also am going to attempt a whole bunch of seeds, knowing that they won't be near where I want at the 10 year mark. However, they can be some things I give away to younguns that like bonsai.

 

[Maloghurst]

My experience in only 5 years of practicing bonsai is that a $100 young jbp is not what you want. You will spend years just letting it grow for a trunk size and taper you want. Not “developing it into a decent bonsai”.
I have 30 trees like this now and if I could trade them all for 1 nice tree and be a “keeper”I would. I think you might underestimate the value of owning a nice tree. I would look in the 300-500 range and that is going to be something that you can develop that already has a trunk and some taper etc. But you will still have a lot of work and time to make it nice.
If you turned toward deciduous trees you will have a lot more options as well. 50-100 at a nursery will get you a nice trunk to develop.
Also I can tell you from experience that there is not that much good info out there about growing “great” prebonsi stock. You can find the basics but Experience is everything. So many little details to get wrong. Very easy to have bad bonsai in 10-20 years.
Good luck, let us know what you find!

 

[River's Edge]

A bit about me first:

• I'm 60+ and hope to get a JBP bonsai or two to tend to when I retire in less than 10 years. It doesn't need to be a mature bonsai by then but at least resemble a bonsai JBP.
• I don't like buying a matured bonsai or any thing for that matter and simply be a keeper. No matter how beautiful it is, it simply will not do. I'd like to create it. Whatever mistake I make I'll laugh at it later.
• I'm in zone 9a going to zone 6 later in life.
• My budget for the JBP project is $100 for the tree(s) only.

Can you help me find the right progression to achieve my goal? At this stage in life, I can't afford foolish youthful mistakes plus why not learn from others? At my age, I think starting from seeds/seedlings is out. I may do that just to learn to keep JBP alive but really don't expect to get anything decent in that short a time. BTW, yes I have searched for JBP progression on-line and in books. I have some ideas but am seeking more from people who know bonsai a whole lot more than I do.

BNutters please come to my help.

I would suggest that the right progression would be to acquire the knowledge and experience on starter material first. Then when you understand what to look for and how to care for it and take it to the next level, select better quality material that is more advanced in development. Take as many hands on training opportunities that you can find and afford. There is no better way to learn than guided practise with someone who can actually show you how. I see far too many hobbyists purchase material that they cannot properly care for and develop further!
Now the first thing is the importance of learning how to select good starter material. Second is how to properly care for it. Third is how to develop the material. The last and often the most complex is how to prepare and maintain quality show material. In my opinion, only those who have never done it think it is the easiest step?

 

[theone420]

if you want something to play with in 10 years why not just start some from seed? there is a 6 year JBP from seed contest going on right now where you could find good info.
https://www.bonsainut.com/forums/🌲the-six-year-japanese-black-pine-contest.73/

you can grow in large pot in small pot and in the ground to make different size trees if you want.
Also you could get a nursery tree and work it so you have nice bark by the 10 year mark. Either way its up to you and what you are willing to take on but get started now and let it grow till you are ready to take on the challenge.
and just having one to take care of for now even if its not the tree you decide to use it will teach you a lot about the tree and if it will thrive in your area.

 

[Cajunrider]

I would suggest that the right progression would be to acquire the knowledge and experience on starter material first. Then when you understand what to look for and how to care for it and take it to the next level, select better quality material that is more advanced in development. Take as many hands on training opportunities that you can find and afford. There is no better way to learn than guided practise with someone who can actually show you how. I see far too many hobbyists purchase material that they cannot properly care for and develop further!
Now the first thing is the importance of learning how to select good starter material. Second is how to properly care for it. Third is how to develop the material. The last and often the most complex is how to prepare and maintain quality show material. In my opinion, only those who have never done it think it is the easiest step?

I'm aiming for doing 1, 2, and 3 and enjoying the process. If I never get to 4, that is fine by me. When I leave this earth, I will try to give the trees to the right people or to plant them back into the ground in appropriate environment for them.

 

[River's Edge]

I'm aiming for doing 1, 2, and 3 and enjoying the process. If I never get to 4, that is fine by me. When I leave this earth, I will try to give the trees to the right people or to plant them back into the ground in appropriate environment for them.

Great perspective. Best in Bonsai

 

[namnhi]

Here is what you will probably get for 100.

 

[Cajunrider]

Here is what you will probably get for 100.
View attachment 219443

Thanks. That gives me an idea of what to expect.
So here are the checks.
1) Good size trunk
2) Good movement in the trunk.
3) Low branches
4) Good roots
All above things with respect to amount of money spent.
Assume that tree is healthy, what else am I looking for?