What's it like to attend an Intensive program?

Franky Bets said:

hmmm This thread was started with really good intentions. This is the exact type of thread ive been looking for. Then like most things on the internet, someone Cheerio's were pissed in. And like usual, derailment. Everything about this thread helped, insight, etc. Then I get to the last page and what do ya know. Someone calling a certain persons students condescending and mean spirited. Only to notice, the only condescending and mean spirited dude is this guy from Michigan. I always figured its best to face to face or pm such bs. And instead of deterring a newb like me from the topic that was meant to be helpful.

Michigan? No wonder, your whole state Halal yet?

Click to expand...

Oh no you just didn't say something about some guy from Michigan did you? That guy from Michigan has forgotten more about Bonsai than you will probably ever know.

Vance Wood said:

Of course I know you too are an SOB: I find that funny as well.

Click to expand...

Naw... my mom is human. And while I consider Boon a bonsai friend and admire his superb talent at creating some of the best trees I've seen, I'm not his student.

Back to the Intensives:

Winter. This is the repotting Intensive. It's messy. We repot a lot of trees. And, yes, Boon is very precise on exactly how we do it.

The days are the same: Videos and handouts instruction in the morning, physical work in the afternoon.

By the way, the methods we learn are not original with Boon. He didn't make these techniques up. He apprenticed at Kihachi-En, under the Master Kihachiro Kamiya. He had to do everything exactly like Kamiya wanted him to do. Think about it: Kamiya is the Master, and clients and customers bring their trees in to be worked by him. In actuality, he has too many to do, so he has apprentices do most of the work. But, he wants the work to be as good as if he had done it himself. His clients and customers want to pretend it's ALL his work. So, he trains his apprentices to do things exactly as if he had done them. Boon being one of them.

So, being a student of Boon, is really like being a student of Kamiya. It's how this stuff gets passed down...

Ok, potting: We start off learning exactly how to make the clips that hold the screens securely over the holes in the pot. Then, we learn exactly how to measure aluminum wire to wire trees into the pot. Different techniques are used for one hole, two hole, three, and four hole pots.

Likewise, we also learn how to remove the old wire holding the trees in the pots. How to use the sickle to loosen the tree from the pot. How to work the rootball, etc. Putting in a drainage layer, adding new soil, setting the tree into the pot at just the right height, chopsticking the soil in, tapping the pot to settle the soil, tamping it down flat, watering. I just listed the steps, but golly, there's a technique to every one.

Ah, here's a hot topic: Boon Mix. It's his soil mix that many have adapted. Again, Boon says it's not "his" mix. It's as close to the mix he used when he was in Japan. It is: 1/3 akadama, 1/3 lava, 1/3 pumice, and an handful of horticultural charcoal. In Japan, they use "River Sand". Japanese "River Sand" isn't the same as our river sand. Japan is a volcanic country, so their river sand is a volcanic product rather than a silica based rock, or even a granite based rock. So, Boon substituted pumice for the River Sand.

Here's the key, it drains extremely quickly, especially when fresh. Roots will grow quickly into it. Over time, the akadama breaks down. Root growth slows. Think about it. This is exactly what we want! After repotting, we want the roots to get re-established in the new soil quickly. But once there, we'd like them to slow down so we don't have to be continuously repotting.

You can vary the proportions of the Boon Mix. The basic mix above is great for conifers. Maples have broad leaves and require more water to be retained. Use more akadama. It holds more water than the other two ingredients. Some choose to use akadama exclusively. That works, too.

The mix is sifted. The largest size is the drainage layer. Then the regular size mix. Then topped with the smaller mix for the surface. (If that's what you want.) Chopped spaghnum moss may be added to the surface, too. Especially for those water loving maples. Shohin trees get the smaller mix.

As you can imagine, it gets pretty messy at repotting time. Boon spreads out tarps in his workshop. At the end of the day, the tarps get emptied into the trash or recycle bin. Makes clean up easier.

Really big trees sometimes take a team to repot. To work the bottoms of the rootball, the trees are laid on their sides. One person holds the trunk, which is hanging out off the edge of the worktable. That way, no branches get damaged. The other person works the bottom of the root ball.

The bottom of the rootball is scraped with a 3 prong rake to loosen the circling roots off the bottom. Once loosened, the bottom of the rootball is sheared off flat. Any heavy roots are cut back. Once that's done, the tree is allowed to sit back up right, and the top and sides of the rootball are worked. Using either bent tip tweezers or a root hook, the surface roots are raked from the trunk towards the edge of the rootball. Any circling roots are removed. There should be an slight slope from the trunk down to the edge of the rootball.

The sides of the rootball are worked last. Position the tree so that the edge of the rootball hangs over the edge of the work table. Put a bin under that to catch a lot of the soil that will be removed. Then using the bent tip tweezers, carefully tease out the roots, and remove old soil, always working from the inside out to the edge. Cut back until you have removed as much soil as you think necessary, all around the tree. Then, an important step: Tease out about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of feeder roots, leaving them exposed. The prepared root ball should be "fuzzy" all around. But NOT on the bottom.

When the tree is placed in the pot and new soil is added, these fuzzy roots will get chopsticked with new soil, and will actually already be in the new soil. So, they're ready to grow. You see, roots like the soil they're in. If they're in a compacted soil, and there's loose soil right next to them, they might not grow into the loose soil, choosing to remain in the compacted soil! That's also why we don't tease out the bottom. We don't want roots to grow on the bottom. We want root to grow OUT, not down. So, the fuzzy roots are already surrounded by the fresh soil, so they'll start to grow quickly.

Then water until the water runs clear, then right back out into the sun! Boon doesn't set the trees in pans of water to soak. He wants the fine particles to be washed out.

There's more needle pulling and wiring.

That will be in a future post!

Adair,

On average, how much soil (percent of the volume) is removed/replaced on a well established tree during a repot? (assume it is going back to the same sized pot)

Vance Wood said:

To put it as kindly as possible falling way short of the kind of language I am capable; Franky Bets: You sir don't have a clue what you are talking about or a position from which to make accurate observations about me. In short sir you are full of shit. If not allowing someone to knock you down and then crap in your face while expecting a thank you may I have more please is mean spirited then I am guilty.

Adair: I used to train my sub-branches exactly how you have yours in the video. Since I started going to Boon's he showed me that by tightening the angles, it makes for a better shaped branch, and better looking pads. It changes the shape (as seen from above) from a rounded shape to more of a triangular shape. Ultimately, it makes a better looking branch.

You have not specifically told me or suggested to me that I go to Boon's classes in this post but you did earlier. However; you have used the Boon word like a bludgeon since the second page suggesting, as is common with all of you Boonies, I cannot, and no one else can either, do bonsai unless they do it Boon's way. This of course is not Boon's fault, it is yours, along with anyone else who; under the influence of stary-eyed hero worship looking like Sponge Bob Square Pants thinks their association with Boon, or any other master for that matter, automatically makes you,----- or anyone else with that same pedigree, believe they are bonsai gods.

When the truth is known a lot of you don't do your own work but you pay to have someone else come in and do it. Some of you when discovered that after ten years of study with Boon have nothing to show for the effort and expense run away and hide.

You have no idea how destructive some of your brethren have been to some people's lives because of this. Some of you seek to destroy the reputations of those with whom you disagree which tells me you are probably not capable of an original thought not filtered through the eyes of Boon.

You asked the question about Naka. That if you had told me the stuff you told me was from Naka I would have accepted it. That too is in error, I hold no one in high regard that their word is graven in stone with a fiery finger reaching down out of Heaven. Holy Crap Adair, I did not say you were not right, and neither did I argue it. I simple did not think it was your business why I did it the way I did it at the time I did it.

I have had to figure all of this bonsai stuff out by myself since 1963, I suppose I can't blame you for that but you have no clue what I have been through. The really sad thing is that to a great degree I have faced resistance on almost every step of the way. When people should have tried to help or make constructive suggestions I was told I was wasting my time.

I watched a special on ESPN last night about Knuckle ballers and how they are treated like the metaphorical red headed step child in the world of professional Baseball. In the end they win games while at the same time being vilified. I kind of feel a kinship to these guys. I guess from this point on I will have to be considered the ultimate outsider because I will not take classes with one of these people, and I will remain for ever without a pedigree. The Knuckle-balling-red-headed-step-child of bonsai.

Believe me I appreciate what you have tried to share but give me a break tell me something I don't know.

Click to expand...

Vance i spent 5 years in the minors with the Pirates as a knuckleball specialist. Never made it!

Vance,

There really is no reason to use profane language in a thread like this. It only serves to heighten the negativity.

I don't have a tree I could use to demonstrate what I'm talking about. I'll see if I can find an handout from the former Kamiya apprentice I take lessons from, and see if I can post it.

In the meantime, you can do this. Take your hand, lay it flat on the table. Now spread your fingers out as wide as possible. Look at the pattern your fingernails make. A semi circle, right?

Now pull your fingers and thumb in so that they're side by side. Look at the pattern of your nails. More of a triangle, right? Middle finger being the apex, ring finger and pinky on one side of the triangle, the middle, pointing finger and thumb being another side. Ok?

Now imagine a branch with sub branches where the branch leader goes straight, and all the side branches stick straight out at a 90 degree angle. The first sub branches are longer than the ones near the tip. What do you get? A semi circle. Now imagine those same branches being at a 45 degree angle or even a 30 degree angle. Now what happens? The top narrows. The shape changes to more like an arrowhead. Triangular. The tips are closer together. As if they are competing for the same sunlight. Which is exactly what happens in nature. A branch grows out, let's say it's East. Finds light. So it grows towards the East. All the buds want that East light. They all go that way. It doesn't make sense for some buds on an Eastward facing branch to suddenly decide to turn to the North or South. No, they would all be going basicly East. Sure, maybe another bud has beaten them to the best East light, so they veer off a little to catch what they can, but they're still trying to go East.

So, when wiring sub branches, don't splay them out at right angles to the main branch. Tighten up the pads, with narrower Vs.

Dario,

It's impossible to answer that question. At least it is for me. Sometimes, we have to remove half the soil! Sometimes only 10%.

More refined trees would get less soil changed. Fresh soil invites rapid root growth, which in turn invites rank top growth. Most refined trees don't need rank growth. We're more in a maintenance or ramification stage rather than trying to lay on wood. We're striving for small twigs.

Rapidly growing trees will have a lot of root growth which will need cutting back to develop nebari close to the trunk. More soil would be removed.

Adair,
In post 66. Is that what you mean by wiring in as oposed to wiring out? If not, can you explain what you mean by wiring in?

Yes. Make the Vs, narrower. The angle between the main line of the branch and the sub-branch should be less than 90 degrees. (Straight out.) All the sub branches on a branch should be going in the same basic direction. So, something like 45 to 30 degrees is good. At he terminal, the angle should be even less! 12 degrees maybe. Almost parallel.

For pines, anyway. Junipers, boonjini, chojubai, can go every which way. But even on Junipers, once we start building pads of foliage, that pad is there because there's sunlight there that all the foliage is competing for.

Once I "saw" this, it was an epiphany.

Steve Cratty at Plant City bonsai once purchased a collection of JBP. About 10 years ago. Maybe 20 trees. He's sold them, clients have brought them back, and he's resold them. A couple of the newer owners are attending my JBP series of workshops I give at PCB. These trees have shown up. And one thing they all have in common is each branch, when viewed from above is a semicircle of foliage at the tips, and they're bare close to the trunk. All the sub branches extend out at right angles to the mainline branch. Some even curl around and go backwards towards the trunk. Trees just don't grow that way.

So, when I've been given a chance, I've rewired these completely, and started bringing the angles back in narrower, sometimes having to put in an approach graft to put a branch in closer to the trunk. I'm changing the shape of the branches so that from above they're not so round, more pointed.

Adair M said:

Yes. Make the Vs, narrower. The angle between the main line of the branch and the sub-branch should be less than 90 degrees. (Straight out.) All the sub branches on a branch should be going in the same basic direction. So, something like 45 to 30 degrees is good. At he terminal, the angle should be even less! 12 degrees maybe. Almost parallel.

For pines, anyway. Junipers, boonjini, chojubai, can go every which way. But even on Junipers, once we start building pads of foliage, that pad is there because there's sunlight there that all the foliage is competing for.

Once I "saw" this, it was an epiphany.

Steve Cratty at Plant City bonsai once purchased a collection of JBP. About 10 years ago. Maybe 20 trees. He's sold them, clients have brought them back, and he's resold them. A couple of the newer owners are attending my JBP series of workshops I give at PCB. These trees have shown up. And one thing they all have in common is each branch, when viewed from above is a semicircle of foliage at the tips, and they're bare close to the trunk. All the sub branches extend out at right angles to the mainline branch. Some even curl around and go backwards towards the trunk. Trees just don't grow that way.

So, when I've been given a chance, I've rewired these completely, and started bringing the angles back in narrower, sometimes having to put in an approach graft to put a branch in closer to the trunk. I'm changing the shape of the branches so that from above they're not so round, more pointed.

Click to expand...

This was a big deal for me too, Adair. And when it finally sunk in, I started seeing it everywhere - especially in my own collection. Many of my trees had long, characterless branches with no taper, no branching close to the trunk, and semi-circular branch pads. I started the intensives about three years ago and have been working the issue in my own garden for the past two. In many cases it meant starting over with the branches and in others it meant a lot of grafting.

The other bad habit was pruning the top branches and keeping the bottom ones. "Prune the bottom branches, wire the top branch down". After the hundredth time he told me, it started to click in.

Scott

Second year of grafting on this pine.

Scott

Ok, so here's a couple of pictures.

The first is a more recent picture of the tree that is my avatar, taken last June just after being decandled, and wired out.

The second picture was taken from above. You can see tons of copper wire. You can also see that the sub-branches are wired to be Vs rather than set at right angles to the mainline branch.

markyscott said:

The other bad habit was pruning the top branches and keeping the bottom ones. "Prune the bottom branches, wire the top branch down". After the hundredth time he told me, it started to click in.

Scott

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on this, perhaps with a pic or two? It's not clear what you're referring to (to me, at least). Are you suggesting that it's better to build the tree mostly with branches from near the top that are wired down, as opposed to using lower level branches?

No, he's talking about how to grow out deciduous branches.

Let's take trident maple. Let a shoot grow out to where it has 6 to 8 pairs of leaves. You know they put out leaves in pairs, right? So, to grow out a branch, and build taper, we grow out, then cut back. Grow out, cut back. This lets the branch develop taper gradually.

That's the basic concept. Now for the advanced stuff. Where do we cut back to? Again, trident maple: The internodes grow out in pairs. There a horizontal pair, the next pair is vertical. By horizontal, the leaves are to the left and right of the branch. The next pair is vertical. One leaf on top, and the other on the bottom of the branch. Next pair is horizontal, then vertical and so on.

So what? Which pair do we cut back to? Horizonal or vertical?

Most of us would choose "horizontal". I did when Boon asked me.

WRONG!

The right answer is "vertical". Ok... then what happens? Both buds grow out a little. Remove the bottom bud. ??? That leaves a twig growing nearly straight up, right? Right. Let it grow out maybe 6 to 8 inches ( should be about 2 days, LOL, these things are WEEDS!) and then using aluminum wire, wire it down into position. Wire it while it has leaves on it. The wood isn't lignified while it's still green. Easy to bend. Put a little side to side movement in too. Let it grow a couple weeks. Until it sets. Remove the wire. Cut it back. Where to? The first vertical bud! Yes, 90 percent of what you just grew out will be cut off! Repeat. Repeat. Repeat as many times as your growing season will allow. 4 or 5 times, easily.

What will happen is you'll eventually get a tapering branch shaped like a series of little hills. That's because you take the upward growing branch and wire it down.

As opposed to, had you chosen the bottom bud to work, would be a tapering branch shaped like a series of little valleys.

Why choose hills rather than valleys? Because that's what trees do in nature. The top bud is stronger, and that branch will eventually shade out the bottom branch/bud, and the bottom branch will be sluffed off.

Go out and look at a mature deciduous tree. You'll see it.

Thanks Adair, I've seen that before but just didn't realize that was what he was talking about.

Chris

Adair M said:

No, he's talking about how to grow out deciduous branches.

Let's take trident maple. Let a shoot grow out to where it has 6 to 8 pairs of leaves. You know they put out leaves in pairs, right? So, to grow out a branch, and build taper, we grow out, then cut back. Grow out, cut back. This lets the branch develop taper gradually.

That's the basic concept. Now for the advanced stuff. Where do we cut back to? Again, trident maple: The internodes grow out in pairs. There a horizontal pair, the next pair is vertical. By horizontal, the leaves are to the left and right of the branch. The next pair is vertical. One leaf on top, and the other on the bottom of the branch. Next pair is horizontal, then vertical and so on.

So what? Which pair do we cut back to? Horizonal or vertical?

Most of us would choose "horizontal". I did when Boon asked me.

WRONG!

The right answer is "vertical". Ok... then what happens? Both buds grow out a little. Remove the bottom bud. ??? That leaves a twig growing nearly straight up, right? Right. Let it grow out maybe 6 to 8 inches ( should be about 2 days, LOL, these things are WEEDS!) and then using aluminum wire, wire it down into position. Wire it while it has leaves on it. The wood isn't lignified while it's still green. Easy to bend. Put a little side to side movement in too. Let it grow a couple weeks. Until it sets. Remove the wire. Cut it back. Where to? The first vertical bud! Yes, 90 percent of what you just grew out will be cut off! Repeat. Repeat. Repeat as many times as your growing season will allow. 4 or 5 times, easily.

What will happen is you'll eventually get a tapering branch shaped like a series of little hills. That's because you take the upward growing branch and wire it down.

As opposed to, had you chosen the bottom bud to work, would be a tapering branch shaped like a series of little valleys.

Why choose hills rather than valleys? Because that's what trees do in nature. The top bud is stronger, and that branch will eventually shade out the bottom branch/bud, and the bottom branch will be sluffed off.

Go out and look at a mature deciduous tree. You'll see it.

Click to expand...

AdairM,

Sorry if this was already made clear, but you are speaking about building a branch structure, not about ramification pruning, is that correct?

Regards,
Martin

coh said:

Can you elaborate on this, perhaps with a pic or two? It's not clear what you're referring to (to me, at least). Are you suggesting that it's better to build the tree mostly with branches from near the top that are wired down, as opposed to using lower level branches?

Click to expand...

Adair said it better than I could. Here's a crude attempt at a picture (be gentle, I'm not an artist). I spent five minutes in he garden and found several I had pruned incorrectly. I attached an example on a Japanese maple - how many pruning errors do you see? And how do you correct it? Start over on this one I'm afraid. Sigh. Another project.

Scott

Martin,

That's right. Building structure. Ramification is easy once you get the structure.

Peter Tea gives a great lecture on the phases to grow a bonsai, especially a deciduous bonsai. First step is to build the trunk and nebari. Don't even worry about branches until you do this. A tree with great branches and ramification with a terrible trunk and nebari is worthless. 90 percent of the value (beauty) of the tree is the lower trunk and nebari.

Once you have your trunk/nebari, then grow your primary branches, using the taper method described above. Once you have that, then start the ramification.

Warning: This is a long process! It takes longer to build/grow a really nice deciduous tree than a conifer!

Ok, now that I've figured out how to post photos, here's a couple more.

The second pic is Godzilla. A huge JBP. The first pic is of me, feeling proud and exhausted after a full day of dewiring, and pulling needles. Godzilla is looking at me, saying, "Is that all you've got? Wimp!" LOL

By the way... since we're talking about stuff here...

Godzilla is Boon's tree. Yes? Everyone agree? Boon's tree.

Ok, every Intensive student who comes thru Boon's has worked on Godzilla. Some, like myself, have unwired it, and pulled needles. I've seen intensive students wiring Godzilla. Others have done the bud selection. So, while Boon supervises us, most of the actual work of maintaining Godzilla is done by Boon's students. So, whose tree is it?

There are many on this site that profess that if anyone else works on their tree, it's not their tree. I mean, really. If you take your car in for service, and get the oil changed, is it not still your car?

How about Goshin, John Naka's great forest at the National Arboretum? Others are maintaining it now. Is it not John's tree?

Lighten up people!

Geesh!

Thank you so much for this thread. I hope to revisit it in the near future when memory fails. A quick question if I may?

I tried to unwind wire today on a deciduous tree. It seems the unwound wire wanted to knock around the leaves... Is it fair to unwind and THEN cut off excessive wire or is that my lack of proper technique? Is the technique unique to conifers?

Great thread.

Looking forward to the next installment.