A new addition- Acer Palmatum Atropurpureum

[drew33998]

Hello, I found this while I was nursery crawling today. It was a little pricey but I liked it very much. I thought the nebari was fairly good and though it does appear to be grafted, the graft union is almost unnoticeable. It's not officially mine because it is on layaway of sorts. Should have it 100 percent in my possession in the next 2 weeks. Plans are a repot into a mixing tub with bonsai soil next spring, and I thought about an air layer at that time as well. Not sure on doing both. The pictures aren't that great, but it gives you an idea

 

[RKatzin]

That's a nice beefy trunk, but where's the red leaves? Atropurpureum have stark ravingly red leaves.

 

[drew33998]

The leaves don't stay red especially here in FLORIDA even in the shade

 

[barrosinc]

The leaves don't stay red especially here in FLORIDA even in the shade

seriously, the leaves don't stay red??

 

[Eric Group]

In your climate, you should be able to get an air layer done this season in most cases. Start it now with a plan on removing when you repot next Soring, if it isn't ready to separate yet at that point it might not take at all, but you could just wait another season- or at least until early fall of next year- before you remove it and repot.

Good luck!

 

[drew33998]

seriously, the leaves don't stay red??

Nope. They have a slight tinge of purple to red but mostly turn green in our climate. I believe it's fairly common in the hotter climates. I know I have read where BVF says the same thing about his maples

 

[bonsairxmd]

Mine is mostly green now as well. We've had 90 degree temps already in Oklahoma

 

[RKatzin]

Well that's very interesting. My Atros never turn green. The vibrant red deepens to purpleish in summer and then to scarlet red in fall. It does get very hot here, also. I'm also in the full sun all day with only late aftenoon shade. Even the trunk and stems are red/purple.

I have a doubt that what you have is Atropurpureum. What do your leaves look like? Atro leaves are lanceolate/ovate, deeply divided with pointy tips and finely toothed margins.

 

[garywood]

Atropurpureum is one of those names that can be confusing. Not to mention hard to say or spell It just means red maple, not a cultivar. Most of the Atro grown are from seed from (usually) 'Bloodgood' which is a cultivar and must be asexually reproduced.

 

[RKatzin]

This is true Gary, that is why all five of my Atro have slightly different color.

Two are seedlings from a nursery, One is pictured, it's the really red one, and the other has orangey highlights in the leaf.

Two are seedlings I collected from a tree that is an Atro cross and about one in a hundred seeds come in the red leaf. Half of those will revert to green leaf in the first or second year. Half of those that are reds will die within two years. I've collected hundreds of seedlings over several years and I have two five year old full red trees to show for it.

The fifth is a Shin deshsojo, grafted cultivar and it's just the perfection of Atro. Everything you want in an Atro with smaller softer leaf and a very true red throughout. I'm growing this out for a red forest in the future.

All are varying shades of red and have the Bloodgood type of leaf, ovate/lanceolate which I believe is tyical of Atropurpureum. The red coloration also carries into the stalk and stem, it is a red maple.

If you have an Atropurpureum that is not red all over it may be an Atro seedling, but why select an Atro seedling that's not red? Maybe these are seedlings that reverted? Hey, I'm fishin' here. Your tree looks to be field grown so possibly after sorting out their good Atro seedlings, the nursery set the rest to grow out and be sold as Acer palmatum f Atropurpureum. Although they are Atro seedling stock, they lack the full red color. Seems unscrupulous to me if you think you're getting a red Japanese Maple and it turns green on you.

Please don't take me wrong, I like your tree very much! I'm just a bit confused about the color and I don't think it's the heat you refer to. I'm getting alot of sun and will see 90's through july and triple digits through most of Aug. We'll see at least 80 today now that this storm has gone its way and the the sun is back. Sincerly, Rick

 

[Telperion]

If we buy a lot of 100acer palmatum seedlings, we usually end up with 3 or 4 distinctive variations. This is just genetic variation, not named cultivars. Difference in leaf size, shape, etc. We pick the ones with most desirable traits and propagate with cuttings. With atropurpureum, we even get lace leaf variations. But, the atropurpureum never turn green in our climate. Another observation: if this is atropurpureum, why is it grafted? They grow fine on their own roots. It is a nice tree. Leaf size is good. Have fun with it.

 

[drew33998]

This is true Gary, that is why all five of my Atro have slightly different color.

Two are seedlings from a nursery, One is pictured, it's the really red one, and the other has orangey highlights in the leaf.

Two are seedlings I collected from a tree that is an Atro cross and about one in a hundred seeds come in the red leaf. Half of those will revert to green leaf in the first or second year. Half of those that are reds will die within two years. I've collected hundreds of seedlings over several years and I have two five year old full red trees to show for it.

The fifth is a Shin deshsojo, grafted cultivar and it's just the perfection of Atro. Everything you want in an Atro with smaller softer leaf and a very true red throughout. I'm growing this out for a red forest in the future.

All are varying shades of red and have the Bloodgood type of leaf, ovate/lanceolate which I believe is tyical of Atropurpureum. The red coloration also carries into the stalk and stem, it is a red maple.

If you have an Atropurpureum that is not red all over it may be an Atro seedling, but why select an Atro seedling that's not red? Maybe these are seedlings that reverted? Hey, I'm fishin' here. Your tree looks to be field grown so possibly after sorting out their good Atro seedlings, the nursery set the rest to grow out and be sold as Acer palmatum f Atropurpureum. Although they are Atro seedling stock, they lack the full red color. Seems unscrupulous to me if you think you're getting a red Japanese Maple and it turns green on you.

Please don't take me wrong, I like your tree very much! I'm just a bit confused about the color and I don't think it's the heat you refer to. I'm getting alot of sun and will see 90's through july and triple digits through most of Aug. We'll see at least 80 today now that this storm has gone its way and the the sun is back. Sincerly, Rick

Yea it doesn't matter to me either way really. But it is interesting to learn from you guys about. I still like the base and trunk. It could be a as you said. A seedling that was a red leaved variety that they grafted when young and it has since reverted. I will say that it did have some leaves that were still a purple hue. When I get the tree home I will take a closer look and add some photos so we can all take a look at it. Thanks for all the info

 

[drew33998]

If we buy a lot of 100acer palmatum seedlings, we usually end up with 3 or 4 distinctive variations. This is just genetic variation, not named cultivars. Difference in leaf size, shape, etc. We pick the ones with most desirable traits and propagate with cuttings. With atropurpureum, we even get lace leaf variations. But, the atropurpureum never turn green in our climate. Another observation: if this is atropurpureum, why is it grafted? They grow fine on their own roots. It is a nice tree. Leaf size is good. Have fun with it.

It may not be grafted. Maybe that was why I thought that the "graft union" was so smooth. Either way I will post some more pics in a couple weeks so I can continue to tap into you guys' knowledge. Thanks for the replies

 

[drew33998]

If we buy a lot of 100acer palmatum seedlings, we usually end up with 3 or 4 distinctive variations. This is just genetic variation, not named cultivars. Difference in leaf size, shape, etc. We pick the ones with most desirable traits and propagate with cuttings. With atropurpureum, we even get lace leaf variations. But, the atropurpureum never turn green in our climate. Another observation: if this is atropurpureum, why is it grafted? They grow fine on their own roots. It is a nice tree. Leaf size is good. Have fun with it.

Chris, Does this look like a graft union to you? I thought it might be. Not sure about Monrovia's standard procedure about these. I'm going to dig into their website to see if I can find out anything about how they produce them.

 

[RKatzin]

That doesn't really look like a graft. What that looks like to me is where the soil line was at the nursery. They generally keep the root crown covered with a few inches of soil.

 

[drew33998]

I am going to have to thread graft some roots onto this tree. My question is does the scion have to be the same stock as the mother plant? If so I will have to layer some cuttings or use some other type of propagation to get them from the mother plant. I'm guessing that you may or may not want to use a different sotck because of the differing growth rate? Thanks

 

[barrosinc]

Nope. They have a slight tinge of purple to red but mostly turn green in our climate. I believe it's fairly common in the hotter climates. I know I have read where BVF says the same thing about his maples

why did you get an atropurpurea if it goes green and apparently rooting is weaker than green regular palmatums? (serious question)

 

[drew33998]

why did you get an atropurpurea if it goes green and apparently rooting is weaker than green regular palmatums? (serious question)

I already have several green maples and red Japanese maples are hard to find here. I am not worried about the roots being weaker on the red Japanese maple. It is hard to find a Japanese maple without an ugly graft, especially a red one. This one was very large and I felt I could get several nice trees from it through the years.