Collected or from seed?

[sorce]

Lol...

Yeah....

Normal in some sense......

Sorce

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Seed? sure, very do-able, with time.

Got some collected, some from seed, some from cuttings or other propagation methods. All have their good points. What is there to debate? A trunk with nice taper and no blemishes can fetch a premium price. It doesn't matter whether from seed or collected and chopped by an artist with skill at healing scars. It is the actual appearance of the bonsai in front of you that determines its value. Origins, or techniques used shouldn't matter, as they should be invisible at the highest level. Big scars and blemishes, bring the price down, the lowest end of scale is cost of firewood. It all depends on the skill of the grower(s), firewood or high end investment quality art?

I know first hand, it is easy to make ugly, inferior bonsai from seedlings. Just as it is easy to make inferior bonsai out of collected material. I have even turned high quality collected material into inferior bonsai, with one slip of the concave cutter. Easy to do. Fun too.

@Anthony - he is right, in the tropics, time for growing from seed is 1/3 to 1/4 what it would take up north, simply because the growing season is longer. One could do the same in more temperate zones with a greenhouse. But note, as Anthony said, even in the tropics, signs of age take time, bark may come a little quicker, but it is not instant.

In USDA zone 5 or 4, add a couple decades to the timeline for growing from seed.

 

[M. Frary]

In USDA zone 5 or 4, add a couple decades to the timeline for growing from seed.

I believe Ontario falls in that slot for sure.
And I think we lost another new guy. The O.P. hasn't been back to his thread.
Nor the Yoda dude.
Dammit!
Say it ain't so.

 

[coh]

Seed? sure, very do-able, with time.

In USDA zone 5 or 4, add a couple decades to the timeline for growing from seed.

I don't think a lot of people really appreciate how different the growing season is in places like Michigan, upstate NY, Minnesota, compared to more southern climates. The amount of growth I see on Smoke's trees, or markyscott's, or some others here, would take me at least 2 years if not 3. Then factor in the mistakes you make while learning on that first batch of seedlings...

Just want to point out that there are some rational people from Ontario who don't want to sell mallsai on every corner or dig every tree on every hill... There are some of us who are "normal" (insert sorce joke)

That's comforting! I already knew that, though, have seen photos from shows in Ontario in various magazines. Some good bonsai artists "up" there!

 

[eferguson1974]

I love growing stuff from seed. My latest projects include some exotic species, such as Thailand Rosewood and Rainbow eucalyptus, neither of which is particularly suitable as bonsai, but they make great specimen trees. My largest rainbow is now almost three feet tall, and the rosewoods are germinating at rates close to 90%, although all are brand new and have no more than a few pairs of leaves right now. I'm hoping I wasn't duped on the seed sale, because the mature trees are worth between $17,000 per ton to $50,000 per cubic meter of wood.

I'm planning on putting them all on my hill this fall.

I am looking for a rainbow euch here and only find big ones. I havnt found them for sale yet. I do have a blue euch witj small leaves. The rainbows are planted for posts here and are strait as arrows. Your probably right, not much goog for bonsai. Id do it anyway! Can they be air layered? Their shedding, colorfull bark is cool.

 

[sorce]

I don't think a lot of people really appreciate how different the growing season is in places like Michigan, upstate NY, Minnesota, compared to more southern climates. The amount of growth I see on Smoke's trees, or markyscott's, or some others here, would take me at least 2 years if not 3. Then factor in the mistakes you make while learning on that first batch of seedlings...

Somehow....that should be a resource!

I'm gonna remember this when I get frustrated over small growth...

Add in top 2 weeks or more of 100+ degrees in the summer...

And our growing season is almost non existent.

I guess finished trees is the way to go...

I can just sit and look at them...
And never have to do shit!

Maybe have more time to make pots and stuff!

Sorce

 

[eferguson1974]

Here in the tropics the season for growing is all year, as long as trees get water during dry season. But just being at sea level is very different than where I live, at 1300 meters. Trees grow slower up in the mountains, its quite a bit cooler. But the light is the same, 12 1/2 hours everyday more or less. A half hour change is all. Still, some trees grow like crazy. Ficus, euchs, ausy pine, and others grow fast, really fast in some cases. But I collect, buy, or start from cuttings or layers. I have some from seed, but wont ever see them as "good bonsai" probably. Im happy collecting and seeing the character of a naturaly grown tree. Strangler figs come in crazy shapes and all styles. To me it makes mofe sense to start with a good trunk or shape. The seeds and cuttings are for my son and his kids to enjoy. Hes 1 1/2 now. I think thats realistic.

 

[Tiki]

I believe Ontario falls in that slot for sure.
And I think we lost another new guy. The O.P. hasn't been back to his thread.
Nor the Yoda dude.
Dammit!
Say it ain't so.

If your referring to me, I'm still around. There are just people here with more knowledge than I on the subject matter, I have little to bring to the table other than what I've already stated.

Uhm, if you weren't referring to me than my mistake. I'll just sit here quietly, taking notes.

One thing I was going to mention, but it has been brought up multiple time now. It does help to pick fast growers, and material native to your area.
Ficus is fast, but one frost and it's burnt toast. Er, frozen toast. Lol

 

[Anthony]

Eric,

from 25th December until mid February, at around 68 deg.F from say 8 to 10 p.m until 8 a.m next day, nothing really grows.
Shuts down the Sub-tropicals as well.
I am only at 200 feet in elevation.
Additionally with heavy 3 to 5 day rain, nothing grows in June, July, sometimes August and October /November.

So it is a myth that in the Tropics [ for us ] trees grow all year round.
Hope you are well.
Seeds become trees with trunk size in 1 to 3 years, if they like the soil.
Good Day
Anthony

* Yet more heavy rains, it's June going into July.

 

[michaelj]

I am looking for a rainbow euch here and only find big ones. I havnt found them for sale yet. I do have a blue euch witj small leaves. The rainbows are planted for posts here and are strait as arrows. Your probably right, not much goog for bonsai. Id do it anyway! Can they be air layered? Their shedding, colorfull bark is cool.

You can find them, at least in my area, but they are expensive. A 3' seedling can run $60, and a 4-5' seedling with no girth can be $80+. It took me a couple of seasons to get that height, but I think my germination rate for the seeds was under a percent. At least the seeds are cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/rainbow-eucalyptus-seeds

Seedlings don't develop much, if any, taper until they're 30 feet tall.

That's not true if you are making those repeated small cuts. But boy, it is sloooooow, compared to growing out and doing a larger chop. I've seen some trees that have been developed from stick-in-a-pot for ten years, twenty years, and some of the trunks are only as fat as something I could get from field growing for 3 years. However, you can get taper without huge scars, and the trunks do show their age, even if they don't have as much girth. At least with some species.

 

[rockm]

You can find them, at least in my area, but they are expensive. A 3' seedling can run $60, and a 4-5' seedling with no girth can be $80+. It took me a couple of seasons to get that height, but I think my germination rate for the seeds was under a percent. At least the seeds are cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/rainbow-eucalyptus-seeds



That's not true if you are making those repeated small cuts. But boy, it is sloooooow, compared to growing out and doing a larger chop. I've seen some trees that have been developed from stick-in-a-pot for ten years, twenty years, and some of the trunks are only as fat as something I could get from field growing for 3 years. However, you can get taper without huge scars, and the trunks do show their age, even if they don't have as much girth. At least with some species.

Which is what I was getting at. Left untended, seedlings don't develop useable taper

 

[jeanluc83]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

 

[aml1014]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

Funny how that works. People have to learn our sarcasm and not get so hurt, it's the Internet! We're all here to learn..... and joke around a bit too. Lol

Aaron

 

[sorce]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

Went back into the phonebooth!

Sorce

 

[Dav4]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

I think I know where he is...

 

[rockm]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

I don't find it all that surprising. The OP wasn't interested in learning anything.

He was a typical "look at me. I'm a special revolutionary bonsai snowflake with tremendous vision" type that appear again and again and again on bonsai forums. They always melt away when asked to pony up their actual knowledge of the subject.

 

[Moonster]

I find it interesting, now that there is some useful discussion going on @somnium is nowhere to be found.

Yea, as an outsider (newcomer) looking in, dont feed the troll. This guy is clearly full of shit with the bullshit "wise man" quotes and talking about visionaries and philosophy you would find in a fortune cookie. I recommend moving on