First Maple in Zone 10b

[Haydz]

Hey all,

New to bonsai. I live in Miracle Mile in LA, I have a great morning light facing balcony that usually stops getting direct sunlight around 2-3PM. I just got a beautiful maple while up in San Fran it was cheeper than most I’ve seen already potted in a training pot so I couldn’t say no… aside form a little mildew on the leaves the tree seems super healthy.. might have to repot in spring as I have a feeling it’s a little crowded but for now still getting good drainage.

One thing I noticed is when I bought the tree they had a pebble like fertilizer on the surface… as I know these trees need a dormancy period I was wondering if I will still get leaf drop this winter (it is Oct. 17th as I type) I don’t know when the fertilizer was added… or when it was repotted.. a part of me was wondering if I should put in some work and try and get all the pebbles I can get off the top.. if it’s not that big of a deal I am going to leave it.

Also any advice in keeping this tree nice and happy through winter and surviving summer out here when the time comes

Also would love any advice on maples in general. What worked for you, what didn’t, what you’d do differently.

Thank you for anytime you spend replying!
(P.S. the tree is out side the photos I have here are when I first got it still in San Francisco)

 

[Youngling]

I have only 1 palmatum, for this exact reason. We have a very hot and windy spring - summer. I keep it under 30% shade cloth in a wind sheltered area. Still it's difficult to keep the leaves from scorching. Also prone to Anthracnose, so i water often but try not to get the leaves wet(spread spores). I use Mancozeb as preventive against Anthracnose.

 

[Shibui]

The 'pebbles' are probably Osmocote (or similar). It won't stop your tree going dormant and it won't hurt the tree even when the tree is dormant. Any nutrients that might be released that the tree can't use will just wash through the soil and out of the pot.
I'd be more worried about getting rid of the Oxalis weed in the pot. That can be very invasive.

Morning sun and afternoon shade should be great for a JM. Plenty of water in hot weather but a bit on the dry side while it has no leaves.

One of the big problems I have encountered with JM is clusters of shoots growing close together. This rapidly causes local thickening. If you just keep trimming the ends of branches you'll end up with knobs at the end of all the branches. Very important to remove excess shoots whenever they appear. Only keep V divisions at any point on the trunk or on branches. Hard to see through those leaves but I suspect there will be a few clusters of shoots up there.
It is very tempting to grow a tree to full height or grow branches to full length then prune at that length. This gives straight growth with no taper. Much better to grow then cut back to the first leaf/node then grow again, building the trunk and then branches one node at a time. Slower but gives trunks and branches with both natural bends and taper.
@SeanS has some great threads showing progression of both TRIDENT and JAPANESE MAPLES development in a climate very similar to yours. Well worth scrolling through to see some great ideas.

 

[hemmy]

I was wondering if I will still get leaf drop this winter (it is Oct. 17th as I type) I don’t know when the fertilizer was added… or when it was repotted.. a part of me was wondering if I should put in some work and try and get all the pebbles I can get off the top.. if it’s not that big of a deal I am going to leave it.

Also any advice in keeping this tree nice and happy through winter and surviving summer out here when the time comes

I was up the coast from you in zone 10a for a decade. You’ll need those sub-50degF lows and below 45degF is better to get good dormancy. Your microclimate will matter. When it’s out of leaf, I’d try to give it full shade. You may have to manually defoliate around Christmas and bud swell for repotting indicator might be in Feb.

Water quality will be an issue, with the higher alkalinity, pH and TDS of your tap water. This will likely lead to burnt leaf edges that is usually blamed on wind and heat (which are still both real issues also). I had success using a fertilizer for “acid-loving” plants during the growing season. Like a water soluble miracle gro labeled for azaleas or similar. You can also add plain vinegar to your watering can to lower the pH. You can get pool test paper strips and test the water for alkalinity and pH. There are online calculators and I have a spreadsheet for acetic acid based on your water quality (use the City’s online reports for inputs). It will likely be around 15-30ml of 5% acetic acid (plain white vinegar) per gallon.

Keeping the soil damp and not letting it completely dry out will also help to prevent the bad mineral complexes from precipitating in the soil. Also fully drench when watering to the point of water draining from bottom. This will help flush the salts out.

As stated, the current granular fertilizer shouldn’t be an issue.

If you aren’t in one, join a local club! They are great resources for your local conditions.

Cheers!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

As people have suggested, your issue will be in providing enough cold for the tree to go dormant. All Japanese maples are deciduous trees that need a period of dormancy to remain healthy. They are not a semi-tropical like Chinese elm that can handle tropical conditions (and maintain their leaves year-round, or only drop them some years while keeping them on other warmer years) as well as temperate cold conditions. At this time of year I would consider giving the tree shade and protection - not to keep them tree from getting too warm, but to keep the tree cool and stimulate seasonal change.

 

[Haydz]

The 'pebbles' are probably Osmocote (or similar). It won't stop your tree going dormant and it won't hurt the tree even when the tree is dormant. Any nutrients that might be released that the tree can't use will just wash through the soil and out of the pot.
I'd be more worried about getting rid of the Oxalis weed in the pot. That can be very invasive.

Morning sun and afternoon shade should be great for a JM. Plenty of water in hot weather but a bit on the dry side while it has no leaves.

One of the big problems I have encountered with JM is clusters of shoots growing close together. This rapidly causes local thickening. If you just keep trimming the ends of branches you'll end up with knobs at the end of all the branches. Very important to remove excess shoots whenever they appear. Only keep V divisions at any point on the trunk or on branches. Hard to see through those leaves but I suspect there will be a few clusters of shoots up there.
It is very tempting to grow a tree to full height or grow branches to full length then prune at that length. This gives straight growth with no taper. Much better to grow then cut back to the first leaf/node then grow again, building the trunk and then branches one node at a time. Slower but gives trunks and branches with both natural bends and taper.
@SeanS has some great threads showing progression of both TRIDENT and JAPANESE MAPLES development in a climate very similar to yours. Well worth scrolling through to see some great ideas.

Thank you for the great info!! Definitely pretty dense towards the top I’ve seen some pruning done after leaf drop, thinking I will go in and cut back before first swell of new growth in spring

 

[Haydz]

I was up the coast from you in zone 10a for a decade. You’ll need those sub-50degF lows and below 45degF is better to get good dormancy. Your microclimate will matter. When it’s out of leaf, I’d try to give it full shade. You may have to manually defoliate around Christmas and bud swell for repotting indicator might be in Feb.

Water quality will be an issue, with the higher alkalinity, pH and TDS of your tap water. This will likely lead to burnt leaf edges that is usually blamed on wind and heat (which are still both real issues also). I had success using a fertilizer for “acid-loving” plants during the growing season. Like a water soluble miracle gro labeled for azaleas or similar. You can also add plain vinegar to your watering can to lower the pH. You can get pool test paper strips and test the water for alkalinity and pH. There are online calculators and I have a spreadsheet for acetic acid based on your water quality (use the City’s online reports for inputs). It will likely be around 15-30ml of 5% acetic acid (plain white vinegar) per gallon.

Keeping the soil damp and not letting it completely dry out will also help to prevent the bad mineral complexes from precipitating in the soil. Also fully drench when watering to the point of water draining from bottom. This will help flush the salts out.

As stated, the current granular fertilizer shouldn’t be an issue.

If you aren’t in one, join a local club! They are great resources for your local conditions.

Cheers!

Thanks for the info!! I use a filter for the water bc I know the tap out here is disgusting lol
I will see how it’s looking around the end of November before maybe starting a thread on manual defoliation… there is two old nursery’s right next to were I live both housing some of the most beautiful bonsai I’ve seen I plan on talking to whoever is the car taker for them! Thank you!!

 

[Maiden69]

I guess @Clicio and @SeanS JMs don't know about the strict dormancy requirements for them as they both have JMs that are thriving. Especially Clicio in a zone 11a in Brazil.

I am in a zone 8b, in central Texas, heat here is pretty bad. I keep my JMs under a 50% shade cloth all summer and do experience a few burned tips but they still grow fine. I think the biggest issue is that since we have to protect them heavily from the sun they don't develop the bright colors for fall. If I recall @markyscott used to do the "fake fall treatment" around the 1st of January on his deciduous that were still holding on to the leaves down in the Houston area.

 

[Haydz]

I guess @Clicio and @SeanS JMs don't know about the strict dormancy requirements for them as they both have JMs that are thriving. Especially Clicio in a zone 11a in Brazil.

I am in a zone 8b, in central Texas, heat here is pretty bad. I keep my JMs under a 50% shade cloth all summer and do experience a few burned tips but they still grow fine. I think the biggest issue is that since we have to protect them heavily from the sun they don't develop the bright colors for fall. If I recall @markyscott used to do the "fake fall treatment" around the 1st of January on his deciduous that were still holding on to the leaves down in the Houston area.

I’ll try and see if he has any tips on a fall simulation for them!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I've had a J. Maple (shishigashira) for over 3 years now, living an hour up the coast from you. I also have a couple more young ones.

I have found that they do better in dappled shade. Morning sun should be great but that mid-day sun might be too much for it. Consider a shade cloth to put over it or something like that. If there are any hot winds, definitely protect it.

Mine all have gone dormant and lost their leaves in fall. I have not had success at getting much for fall colors because usually the Santa Ana wind storms dry out the leaves and leave them mostly crispy. So farthis year, we have not had any Santa Ana winds, so the leaves are fully intact still! I am looking forward to seeing the colors in the next month or so.

 

[Haydz]

I've had a J. Maple (shishigashira) for over 3 years now, living an hour up the coast from you. I also have a couple more young ones.

I have found that they do better in dappled shade. Morning sun should be great but that mid-day sun might be too much for it. Consider a shade cloth to put over it or something like that. If there are any hot winds, definitely protect it.

Mine all have gone dormant and lost their leaves in fall. I have not had success at getting much for fall colors because usually the Santa Ana wind storms dry out the leaves and leave them mostly crispy. So farthis year, we have not had any Santa Ana winds, so the leaves are fully intact still! I am looking forward to seeing the colors in the next month or so.

thats awesome! this is giving me hope!! i wanted to see how this one does before I go and get a 5-6 foot tree in a nursery pot and cut it back for a more refined look, I was seeing things about "faking Fall" for these trees and doing a manuel defoliation around Jan 1 is all the leaves have not dropped, I guess we shall see how the tree wants to operate this winter

 

[Wulfskaar]

thats awesome! this is giving me hope!! i wanted to see how this one does before I go and get a 5-6 foot tree in a nursery pot and cut it back for a more refined look, I was seeing things about "faking Fall" for these trees and doing a manuel defoliation around Jan 1 is all the leaves have not dropped, I guess we shall see how the tree wants to operate this winter

Mine start turning fall colors in November and the leaves are dropped during winter.

Here is mine on Dec 10 2023. It has some green, some color, and a lot of crispy edges. You can also see the dappled shade it gets.

Also, I think it's a good plan to take care of the one you have for a while to make sure it can live on your balcony without major issues.

 

[Haydz]

Mine start turning fall colors in November and the leaves are dropped during winter.

Here is mine on Dec 10 2023. It has some green, some color, and a lot of crispy edges. You can also see the dappled shade it gets.

Also, I think it's a good plan to take care of the one you have for a while to make sure it can live on your balcony without major issues.

View attachment 571318

wow beautiful! I see some air layering as well! another reason I would like to get a bigger tree.. this gives me some hope i may see some color yet! luckily where I am at I don't get much of the hot winds so I am hoping for the best, I have some light filtering shades coming to help give it some afternoon heat protection.. in a perfect world I would just have a nice big Black Pine to give it some shade, but my bank account doesn't agree much with my Bonsai dreams

 

[Wulfskaar]

Just to illustrate my point on having maples in direct sun in southern California, here are a couple pics I took today.

This one has been in dappled shade all year. It's mostly green still.


This one has been in late morning direct sun all year. It's very crispy at this point.

 

[Clicio]

Hey @Maiden69 , take a look at some pix from today, late spring here:


Some cultivars such as Liquidambar, laceleaf, kotohime, kiyohime, orange dream, deshojo and palmatums.


All under 50% shade cloth.










This one above is a trident root over a rock in training. No shade cloth for the tridents around here.

 

[Carol 83]

Hey @Maiden69 , take a look at some pix from today, late spring here:

View attachment 572832
Some cultivars such as Liquidambar, laceleaf, kotohime, kiyohime, orange dream, deshojo and palmatums.

View attachment 572833
All under 50% shade cloth.

View attachment 572834

View attachment 572835

View attachment 572836

View attachment 572838

View attachment 572837
This one above is a trident root over a rock in training. No shade cloth for the tridents around here.

Glad to see you back around here!

 

[Maiden69]

Some cultivars such as Liquidambar,

Glad you dropped by! Also, Liquidambar likes full sun here in TX, It will help those leaves shrink down a little bit. And... if you have a chance to get the liquidambar Orientalis do so, I think they are a better choice for bonsai.

 

[Clicio]

Glad you dropped by!...

And... if you have a chance to get the liquidambar Orientalis do so, I think they are a better choice for bonsai.

I'm going to try to find one of those around here, thanks!