Frozen Top Soil Conifers. Help needed.

[Runstenen]

Someone in a FB thread said that i dont need to "mollycoddle" my trees .. LOL .. Is that a british word or do you use it in the US aswell ?

( Wikipedia : mollycoddle : treat (someone) in an indulgent or overprotective way )

 

[BrightsideB]

Someone in a FB thread said that i dont need to "mollycoddle" my trees .. LOL .. Is that a british word or do you use it in the US aswell ?

( Wikipedia : mollycoddle : treat (someone) in an indulgent or overprotective way )

Never heard that lol. Sounds like you may be on the threshold but it is normal to be worried if it is your first winter doing bonsai.

 

[Paradox]

. Im in 7a / Stockholm Sweden.

Welcome

Please put this information on your profile in the line for it so we don't have to repeatedly ask you where you are

Scotts and mugo pines are mountain pines, adapted to cold weather. You can baby them too much to their detriment

I am also in zone 7 but in the U.S. My mugos and scotts are still on my bench

 

[Runstenen]

Welcome

Please put this information on your profile in the line for it so we don't have to repeatedly ask you where you are

Scotts and mugo pines are mountain pines, adapted to cold weather. You can baby them too much to their detriment

I am also in zone 7 but in the U.S. My mugos and scotts are still on my bench

I think i managed to post it at the right place + it shows when you click my avatar ??

 

[Paradox]

I think i managed to post it at the right place + it shows when you click my avatar ??

Yes you got it
Thank you
It will help us help you better

 

[Runstenen]

Never heard that lol. Sounds like you may be on the threshold but it is normal to be worried if it is your first winter doing bonsai.

On the threshold to mollycoddling That’s hilarious This seems to be a great forum. Glad I found you guys

 

[Potawatomi13]

I’ve only seen heat pads recommended to help seeds and cuttings. I would worry they’d dry out the soil and create frequent rapid fluctuations in soil temperature.

You do not subscribe Mirai Live? Ryan uses for trees recently repotted during cold winter weather in unheated greenhouse. Protects roots from cold while not causing false Spring to upper tree.

 

[Runstenen]

You do not subscribe Mirai Live? Ryan uses for trees recently repotted during cold winter weather in unheated greenhouse. Protects roots from cold while not causing false Spring to upper tree.

I think i saw that episode. The overwintering episode ?! Interesting.

 

[rockm]

I'd skip the extra measures. I leave pines out on the benches all winter. I'm in zone 7, so my winters are a bit milder than yours. Soil usually is frozen solid for months sometimes. You're making the mistake of thinking pines and overwintering trees need to be "warm." They don't. Pines are extremely winter hardy, more so than deciduous trees. They evolved in colder climates. Mugo pines are hardy to USDA zone 3 (which in bonsai terms, since they're in containers usually means a 4).

If you have a place in the yard that is sheltered from the wind, place them under mulch on the ground. Snow is your friend. It provides moisture and insulation.

Coddling trees will kill them. Here's a pic of some of mine in winter storage. We usually don't get a great amount of snow, but I welcome it.

 

[Runstenen]

You do not subscribe Mirai Live? Ryan uses for trees recently repotted during cold winter weather in unheated greenhouse. Protects roots from cold while not causing false Spring to upper tree.

I think i saw that episode. The overwintering episode ?!

I'd skip the extra measures. I leave pines out on the benches all winter. I'm in zone 7, so my winters are a bit milder than yours. Soil usually is frozen solid for months sometimes. You're making the mistake of thinking pines and overwintering trees need to be "warm." They don't. Pines are extremely winter hardy, more so than deciduous trees. They evolved in colder climates. Mugo pines are hardy to USDA zone 3 (which in bonsai terms, since they're in containers usually means a 4).

If you have a place in the yard that is sheltered from the wind, place them under mulch on the ground. Snow is your friend. It provides moisture and insulation.

Coddling trees will kill them. Here's a pic of some of mine in winter storage. We usually don't get a great amount of snow, but I welcome it.

Great input. Thanks. So if you were me you would turn off the heatpads and leave it. I covered them with snow yesterday.

 

[Runstenen]

They are under a roof on my porch. So snow will have to be added manually … I’ll post more pictures in its current state. The pic I posted before is misguiding. Its just the open frame with empty styros on that early pic. Brb !!

 

[rockm]

I think i saw that episode. The overwintering episode ?!

Great input. Thanks. So if you were me you would turn off the heatpads and leave it. I covered them with snow yesterday.

I would NOT use heat packs AT ALL. They're unnecessary and will probably cause more harm than good. If the trees' roots/pots are under snow, Wouldn't worry about it. I also wouldn't be worried if the tops of the trees are under snow. Like I said, snow is the best insulator around. It's mostly air, which acts like a coat, trapping "heat" underneath and slowing heat exchange with the atmosphere.

Also, you will not have to water your trees at all if they're under snow and/or exposed to the elements. I put all my trees under mulch in November on the ground in the backyard. They rarely need water all winter.

 

[rockm]

They are under a roof on my porch. So snow will have to be added manually … I’ll post more pictures in its current state. The pic I posted before is misguiding. Its just the open frame with empty styros on that early pic. Brb !!

When it's possible, I would get them out from under the roof into a location where precipitation can get at them.

 

[BobbyLane]

we have had -2 here, still mild compared to some countries.
my trees have always stayed out on balcony, heres an elm with the top frosted over and a coating of snow, no problem for tree. trees in troughs on the edge of my balcony frost over, if i bring them closer to the building wall, they defrost. that is simply how i 'overwinter'
'molly coddling' thinking you have to wrap everything in cotton wool, when you really dont.

 

[BobbyLane]

"Just seeing my timeline full of folks messing with their trees because it’s -3, -4 overnight and wrapping them up in cotton wool.
Honestly, these frosts are exactly what they need and what our trees have missed for a good while. They will grow better and have less pests and disease for having a proper winter.
Leave them be and enjoy their natural strength and resilience to the cold. Worry if we start getting -10."

-Harry harrington/bonsai4me

 

[rockm]

BTW, just saw this
"My deciduous inside the garage get a stable airtemp of 2-4deg Celsius / 35-39 Fahrenheit so i feel pretty safe with that."

That's too warm. You will get bud break in February with those temps. 30-35 is the range you're aiming for with deciduous. Early bud break in the spring will mean you will have to bring your deciduous trees into the house for weeks. Deciduous trees lose 95 percent of their ability to withstand freezing once they have pushed new leaves (and "new leaves" means leaf buds that are only slightly open).

 

[BobbyLane]

I didnt even know it got that cold in Lithuania, pretty certain Sweden wont get that cold? I spent a weekend in Stocklolm one Dec a few years ago, it was pretty nippy, no snow though, ive spent a weekend in Berlin in Dec and it was bitterly cold with snow and icy roads

I saw this convo on Harrys Fb page.
so yes, you are definitely overthinking

 

[leatherback]

-9c at night the whole week. Pines and junipers on the bench. Deciduous temperates in shade out of the wind. Olives pomes in the shed. Tropicals in the livingroom.
No snow.

 

[Runstenen]

BTW, just saw this
"My deciduous inside the garage get a stable airtemp of 2-4deg Celsius / 35-39 Fahrenheit so i feel pretty safe with that."

That's too warm. You will get bud break in February with those temps. 30-35 is the range you're aiming for with deciduous. Early bud break in the spring will mean you will have to bring your deciduous trees into the house for weeks. Deciduous trees lose 95 percent of their ability to withstand freezing once they have pushed new leaves (and "new leaves" means leaf buds that are only slightly open).

Thats solid info. Thanks !! Ill adjust it pronto.

 

[Runstenen]

I didnt even know it got that cold in Lithuania, pretty certain Sweden wont get that cold? I spent a weekend in Stocklolm one Dec a few years ago, it was pretty nippy, no snow though, ive spent a weekend in Berlin in Dec and it was bitterly cold with snow and icy roads

I saw this convo on Harrys Fb page.
so yes, you are definitely overthinking

When it's possible, I would get them out from under the roof into a location where precipitation can get at them.

Not possible Thanks anyway

we have had -2 here, still mild compared to some countries.
my trees have always stayed out on balcony, heres an elm with the top frosted over and a coating of snow, no problem for tree. trees in troughs on the edge of my balcony frost over, if i bring them closer to the building wall, they defrost. that is simply how i 'overwinter'
'molly coddling' thinking you have to wrap everything in cotton wool, when you really dont.
View attachment 465717

Sure. Thats lucky for you. But im talking about -20 to -25 celsius weeks on end. Do you get that ? Thanks anyway.

"Just seeing my timeline full of folks messing with their trees because it’s -3, -4 overnight and wrapping them up in cotton wool.
Honestly, these frosts are exactly what they need and what our trees have missed for a good while. They will grow better and have less pests and disease for having a proper winter.
Leave them be and enjoy their natural strength and resilience to the cold. Worry if we start getting -10."

-Harry harrington/bonsai4me

Read above. Thanks


To all you great people : Im NOT trying to be a smartass here I’m a Bonsai Beginner but I’m also a swede with 43 ( mild OCD ) winters here and counting But nowadays everything starts to change with global warming and all so you never know how it will look on top of that … But anyways, thanks for all the input !

•Today I’ll adjust/lower the temp in the shed for the deciduous.
•Turn off the thermostat / heat pads for now, at least until we get the low temps I’ve been bragging about

I’ll take some pics of the current setup and post. For my own records if nothing else.

//Emil