Frustrated with bonsai ability

[lordy]

You are not far from Baltimore Bonsai Club who meets on weekends. There happens to be a workshop at a man's home near Columbia, and I am sure you would be welcomed. They work at community outreach for new members.
Meehan's Miniatures in Rohrersville, MD (a bit southeast of Hagerstown) is having a free workshop July 20 from about noon to 5. Owen Reich will be the guest artist. In the afternoon he will help people (for free) with their own trees.
You need to see people do stuff, not just read it and expect to know what to do. Last night I helped a lady who had never repotted a tree. We were working on Ficus that had been in nursery pots for 5 years and were terribly compacted and rootbound. She told me that she would never have treated the roots so harshly had she not seen me do it to her tree. That is the kind of personalized instruction you need to know how to do stuff. Reading in a book to "gently rake out the roots" is not the same as cutting off the bottom of the rootmass with a saw because no roothook would do what needed to be done. You need to work with someone who can say "Been there, done that." Then you too will be able to say it, with a little repetition of course.
Like many others, I have about 20 years behind me and many times suffer from paralysis from analysis. Are the roots right? But the crown leans backward! And what about the 2nd branch that is thicker than the first? What to do??? An experienced person will be able to help you figure out why to do what needs to be done, and you will then begin to know the feeling of confidence in deciding how the tree in front of you will end up. The secret is in the tree, most of the time...Hang in there, and call Martha Meehan and sign up for Owen's workshop on the 20th!

 

[remist17]

Thank you all again. I did not know about MD club. I guess I need to get off my duff and drive a little. Its nice to see the meetings on weekends.

Meehans, ive been there once to buy material (maple and elm). Never knew they offered classes/

 

[Vance Wood]

GOOD! Many beginners get as many trees as possible, then are able to do none of them justice. (You know who you are )

Too many trees is almost as bad as having just one or two.

(Note that I am NOT a beginner, but now, considering my age and health, I have too many trees also, and I am not doing most of them justice. )

So You say.

 

[Vance Wood]

Some people, because of their age and experience, believe they know everything but in reality know little. (You know who you are )

It is wise to enjoy the journey...at your own (and your tree's) pace and not race with anyone. Don't slow down for others (too many advocate this) as well. Bonsai is slow by itself already, no need to slow it down further.

It is a hobby and accept the fact that some are gifted with the artistic talent that most of us do not have. We can hone the craftsmanship side (by practice & doing) but will only take us so far. Did I say practice? Yeah, lots of it and sadly you can't have lots of practice with few trees (simple math-sorry). Giving up is the worst attitude (be it the hobby or on a particular tree), take everything as a challenge and believe it can be improved. The only question is how.

Standard vary by person, location, exposure, experience, etc. One may take pride of his/her work not knowing it is "trash" compared to another's. I enjoy my work and admire them in their infancy, though it is "trash" compared to any exhibition trees. I have no problem taking them as they are, twigs and stumps alike. I have no illusions to produce a world class bonsai either but in my eyes, my trees (like my kids, mom, etc.) are great.

Having fun and pride of my trees is what matters (illusion or not). I hope you feel the same soon.

Then of course there are those who don't know and don't know they don't know they just think they do and in the process can create a good deal of damage. The thing is; they don't know who they are, they just bimble along making pronouncements based on what they feel, or what they have read, or what they have seen someone else do. That's why sometimes when someone comes along on the site telling everybody how they should do bonsai I challenge them to put up or shut up. The question is then left to ask is why do I care? Hell if I know, I just do.

 

[GrimLore]

Thank you all again. I did not know about MD club. I guess I need to get off my duff and drive a little. Its nice to see the meetings on weekends.

Meehans, ive been there once to buy material (maple and elm). Never knew they offered classes/

Feeling a specimen or a form of bonsai like wabi sabi comes with time, I have studied under my Wife for over 15 years with tropical and now I show her all of the "other" species. This is a personal art taught by self control and patience and I suspect you are doing better then you think

 

[Poink88]

Then of course there are those who don't know and don't know they don't know they just think they do and in the process can create a good deal of damage.

Agreed. Thing is, it covers everyone...from newbies to seasoned bonsai folks.

And yes, this chatty newbie is one of those.

 

[sherwoodschwartz]

Then of course there are those who don't know and don't know they don't know they just think they do and in the process can create a good deal of damage. The thing is; they don't know who they are, they just bimble along making pronouncements based on what they feel, or what they have read, or what they have seen someone else do. That's why sometimes when someone comes along on the site telling everybody how they should do bonsai I challenge them to put up or shut up. The question is then left to ask is why do I care? Hell if I know, I just do.

this.

it's so easy to chime in with the 3000 techniques one has seen in books or read about on message boards...substantially harder to have actually done these things and nurtured the plant for several seasons to actually see the results.

i think if you recommend an air-layer to someone, you have better pulled off a lot of damn air-layers. you can make the assertion that they're easy, but that assertion doesn't help the roots to grow.

 

[Lancaster]

Then of course there are those who don't know and don't know they don't know they just think they do and in the process can create a good deal of damage. The thing is; they don't know who they are, they just bimble along making pronouncements based on what they feel, or what they have read, or what they have seen someone else do. That's why sometimes when someone comes along on the site telling everybody how they should do bonsai I challenge them to put up or shut up. The question is then left to ask is why do I care? Hell if I know, I just do.

WHY? Why do you care? Because you are a throwback. Generally a good guy who has some time under his belt in this addiction we call bonsai that likes to help and shares what he "KNOWS", not what he thinks he knows.

One of the reasons why, although I skim through and skip reading a lot of the posts, try to read all of yours.

I find myself nodding, agreeing and thanking you quietly from my keyboard, and laughing at many others posts more times than not.

I thank you for honestly posting, commenting, and challenging. It helps more people than you know.

So, thank you for caring, Vance. I appreciate it.

-Troy

 

[cmeg1]

Maybe do a couple different things,like have a serious tree,perhaps purchased ready made bonsai,if you can buy in person.Something that back buds incredibly like yatsubusa elm or a rough bark cultivar of elm.And then put out some zelkova seeds and make some mini brooms or something to learn clip and grow pretty much instantly and not so serious,but with nice returns and fall colores.Darn I mean the mini zelkova's turn into a neat little tree in like 13 months and they are practically free.That is about what I am doing.And clip and grow is not so straight forward,or is it,maybe it is.If you have any questions you can PM me.I am a beginner ,but I am finally grasping clip and grow thanks to Bonsai Focus magazine.And if you like zelkova you can PM me.

 

[jk_lewis]

Then of course there are those who don't know and don't know they don't know they just think they do and in the process can create a good deal of damage.

A-men!

Then there are those who do know and seem to be proud of it and give ad hoc advice anyway -- just to talk.

That aside, there's been a lot of good advice here and a small amount of questionable stuff. Winnow it carefully and you'll be on your way, and JOIN A CLUB!

 

[Vance Wood]

A-men!

Then there are those who do know and seem to be proud of it and give ad hoc advice anyway -- just to talk.

That aside, there's been a lot of good advice here and a small amount of questionable stuff. Winnow it carefully and you'll be on your way, and JOIN A CLUB!

Then there're those who do indeed know everything that sit back and watch the neighborhood barf-a-rama as every body elses trys to bull shit each other to death.

 

[JudyB]

Hmmm,
wonder what category I fall under?

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I'm sure that many of us have had periods where tree health or ability has frustrated us. I think you just have to approach it like any other problem.
Figure out what is it you are lacking to be successful, and make a list of the things you need to do to attain that goal. It seems that bonsai is a combination of skills.

Horticultural skills - study, combined with experience will teach you these skills. And you must continue to study, in our changing environments with more and more unstable weather patterns, and different pest management needs.
Specific bonsai skills - clubs can help if you're lucky enough to have one with good programs, and helpful members. I've found that books, videos, and forums have been my mainstay for this. (and just DOING it.)
Artistic skills - I think this is easy for some, not for others. Once again study can help, but working with better material can help you find your eye. Not all trees have potential, so it's possible to waste your time ( in an artistic sense) on mediocre material. That's not a good way to move forward with this skill. I think that working with a good instructor, perhaps even on their trees, would be the way to see what is possible.

Anyway, you've gotten a lot of good advice (except for one bad nut) here in this thread, hope this is additionally helpful to you.

 

[Dave Leppo]

you live about an hour from Nature's Way (I live in Dover).

there's a meeting tonight (which I sadly cannot attend)

the Susquehanna Bonsai club has members from at least as far as Williamsport and West Chester, PA. These people don't make it to every meeting; I'm sure they prioritize and catch what they can.


JULY MEETING:
BYOT Discussion
with guest speaker, Owen Reich
Monday, July 15, 2013
at Nature’s Way Nursery

7pm – Regular Meeting

 

[Dave Leppo]

many of the books and seminar demonstrations deal with "refining" or "styling" a tree that's been pre-destined to be a bonsai. This doesn't help beginners like you (or me) learn how to take raw material and start developing it. I suggest looking at books and seminars dealing with raw collected material, like Nick Lenz's "Bonsai from the Wild" or Walter Pall's Bonsai Academy sessions working on collected Rocky Mountain material of various stages.

BTW I started in spring 2011, and I don't think I have ANY trees from that year, and few even from last year.

 

[Poink88]

Then there're those who do indeed know everything that sit back and watch the neighborhood barf-a-rama as every body elses trys to bull shit each other to death.

Most of those people are very busy and likely, bonsai is their livelihood. Their time is "more precious" and probably it is counter productive for them to post advise freely. In that aspect I cannot fault them.

For example Walter P. & Bill V. Both are here but rarely posts probably for the reasons I stated above (among other reasons). I admire them both and I learn a lot from their; site, blog, youtube videos, magazine articles, interviews, etc. but to me (in this forum) they are close to useless (please read this well before you jump on me).

Here and with their current participation; I would take Vance, Smoke, V, jkl, Brian, Stan, Bob, Rockm, Zach, etc. etc. etc. over them.

 

[GrimLore]

I am from no school of thought really although I am affectionate of Walter Palls' "no nonsense" approach to a lot of things. I find myself not looking so much at what others have and do not. I honestly just look at what I have and make it work for ME. I do not have any goals as far as "show" or being called a "master". If my plants are happy I am happy and find it to be a most enjoyable experience when all is well

 

[pgstroud@aol.com]

Reply

Don't give up. I have never belonged to a bonsai club but, like you go to books but mainly websites. I have put on google the kind of sites to send me & there are a number I have listed such as bonsai, bonsai soil, bonsai styling, bonsai pruning, etc, anything associated with bonsai.I automatically get links on everything I have listed. I have grown many plants & trees in the past but bonsai is the most challenging. Anyone will tell you they have killed some & had success with others. Make sure the soil you use is suited to your climate. I make my own based on our climate here.
Patience is the first requirement with bonsai as it is in many disciplines. Ask someone how long it took them to become proficient at golf, for instance. It does take persistence & teaching this is as important an asset to doing bonsai as anything else.