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Frozentreehugger

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Life is never boring went to work today . Came home in the rain . Wife and daughter have all the doors and windows open in the house with no screens ( middle of Bug season ) I walk in first thing I notice is furniture moved away from walls . There trying to convince the 2 cats new play toy to leave the house ( chipmunk with 1/2 his tail missing )
 

Frozentreehugger

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Was reminded today . Watched Appalachian bonsai you tube vid on soil tests . About 4 years old but well done glaring points out what happens to common bonsai soil components there is a water retention test and a freeze cycle test . Any of us in the north should pay particular attention to the freeze cycle test The break down of components each time they freeze cycle . Is the primary reason I take steps to freeze my trees once in the fall and thaw them out once in the spring and has a lot to do with my choice of components . I in no way claim expertise just pointing out there are variables to consider in the north others don’t face
 

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Was reminded today . Watched Appalachian bonsai you tube vid on soil tests . About 4 years old but well done glaring points out what happens to common bonsai soil components there is a water retention test and a freeze cycle test . Any of us in the north should pay particular attention to the freeze cycle test The break down of components each time they freeze cycle . Is the primary reason I take steps to freeze my trees once in the fall and thaw them out once in the spring and has a lot to do with my choice of components . I in no way claim expertise just pointing out there are variables to consider in the north others don’t face
Growing bonsai in Winterfell is not easy.
 

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Was reminded today . Watched Appalachian bonsai you tube vid on soil tests . About 4 years old but well done glaring points out what happens to common bonsai soil components there is a water retention test and a freeze cycle test . Any of us in the north should pay particular attention to the freeze cycle test The break down of components each time they freeze cycle . Is the primary reason I take steps to freeze my trees once in the fall and thaw them out once in the spring and has a lot to do with my choice of components . I in no way claim expertise just pointing out there are variables to consider in the north others don’t face
GNARLY considerations here!

Thank you so much! This is DEFINITELY relevant and very astute.

I noticed my coldframe occasionally thawed dormant containers PARTIALLY out during brighter/direct sunlight, only to freeze later in the evening..

2021/22 was the first year a wintering structure was used.

I've noticed that more containers needed repotting due to poor drainage than I EXPECTED...

And I believe this cycle you brought up for discussion MAY be a contributing factor.
 

Frozentreehugger

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As I have said before in posts . Winterized in non heated or attached garage no light trees allowed to freeze on benches solid actually delay winter Storage as long as I dare . Then in the garage take steps to keep them frozen until I’m certain they come out into the light and thaw once . Have strong opinion from others failures and my own freeze thaw cycle is very unhealthy for trees not just deteriorating if soil . But re watching the test vid reminded me I wanted to try coconut coir . As organic component . Scored very high in water retention test abs highest in freeze cycle test also expands as it absorbs moisture more than mist helping aeration Seems strange that something from the tropics freezes so well 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ And it’s easy to source . Sold in compressed blocks soak over night in water they expand 8 x there size should sift well
 

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GNARLY considerations here!

Thank you so much! This is DEFINITELY relevant and very astute.

I noticed my coldframe occasionally thawed dormant containers PARTIALLY out during brighter/direct sunlight, only to freeze later in the evening..

2021/22 was the first year a wintering structure was used.

I've noticed that more containers needed repotting due to poor drainage than I EXPECTED...

And I believe this cycle you brought up for discussion MAY be a contributing factor.
Watch the vid take special note of how . Akadama normal compost soil and even pumice and peat moss do badly when frozen .
 

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As I have said before in posts . Winterized in non heated or attached garage no light trees allowed to freeze on benches solid actually delay winter Storage as long as I dare . Then in the garage take steps to keep them frozen until I’m certain they come out into the light and thaw once . Have strong opinion from others failures and my own freeze thaw cycle is very unhealthy for trees not just deteriorating if soil . But re watching the test vid reminded me I wanted to try coconut coir . As organic component . Scored very high in water retention test abs highest in freeze cycle test also expands as it absorbs moisture more than mist helping aeration Seems strange that something from the tropics freezes so well 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ And it’s easy to source . Sold in compressed blocks soak over night in water they expand 8 x there size should sift well
Sold with expand 8 times its size on command!
All kidding aside, back in the old country we use coco coir just like Peter Chan uses sphagnum moss.
You asked why it tolerate freezing so well, it is because those tight fiber are super tough. That's why we use them to make ropes. Those ropes can handle being wet and freezing just fine.

Winterfell.png
 
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ShadyStump

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As I have said before in posts . Winterized in non heated or attached garage no light trees allowed to freeze on benches solid actually delay winter Storage as long as I dare . Then in the garage take steps to keep them frozen until I’m certain they come out into the light and thaw once . Have strong opinion from others failures and my own freeze thaw cycle is very unhealthy for trees not just deteriorating if soil . But re watching the test vid reminded me I wanted to try coconut coir . As organic component . Scored very high in water retention test abs highest in freeze cycle test also expands as it absorbs moisture more than mist helping aeration Seems strange that something from the tropics freezes so well 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️ And it’s easy to source . Sold in compressed blocks soak over night in water they expand 8 x there size should sift well
I started using coco coir this year. Can confirm it expands ALLOT when it gets wet. Generally comes in compressed bricks, and when you break a chunk off and crumble it into your soil it's like dust. Make sure it's THOROUGHLY broken up, otherwise when you wet it you just get little balls of the stuff that won't disperse, unless of course that's the effect your going for. Don't bother sifting; you'll lose 90% or better as fines. A little bit goes along way because of the expansion effect.
Haven't tried yet, but the only workaround I can imagine is to wet it first, then work it into the soil, but I'm skeptical as to how well that might work.

I'm using it mixed into my SafeTSorb to prevent compacting for as long as possible. For more acid loving plants, I reduce the coco coir, and add peat and used coffee grounds. This should, theoretically, neutralize the alkalinity of the mineral component, and lower the pH slightly below 7 over a short time.
 

Frozentreehugger

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I started using coco coir this year. Can confirm it expands ALLOT when it gets wet. Generally comes in compressed bricks, and when you break a chunk off and crumble it into your soil it's like dust. Make sure it's THOROUGHLY broken up, otherwise when you wet it you just get little balls of the stuff that won't disperse, unless of course that's the effect your going for. Don't bother sifting; you'll lose 90% or better as fines. A little bit goes along way because of the expansion effect.
Haven't tried yet, but the only workaround I can imagine is to wet it first, then work it into the soil, but I'm skeptical as to how well that might work.

I'm using it mixed into my SafeTSorb to prevent compacting for as long as possible. For more acid loving plants, I reduce the coco coir, and add peat and used coffee grounds. This should, theoretically, neutralize the alkalinity of the mineral component, and lower the pH slightly below 7 over a short time.
Yes the only way I have seen it is compressed blocks you soak first the. You have the coir . The stuff in the vid looked pretty good visa visa long fibered line it had been sifted . If it don’t sift to a decent size I don’t see it being useful to us with bonsai my understanding is it’s ph neutral
 

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Yes the only way I have seen it is compressed blocks you soak first the. You have the coir . The stuff in the vid looked pretty good visa visa long fibered line it had been sifted . If it don’t sift to a decent size I don’t see it being useful to us with bonsai my understanding is it’s ph neutral
I didn't soak it first, just broke off dry chunks and crumbled them between my fingers.
I'll try wetting it some time and see what the product looks like.
 

Frozentreehugger

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Who is looking forward to the new Elvis movie . 😎😎 reminded me I live and was raised near Ottawa Ontario where the bars close at 1 am but across the river I. Quebec they close at 4 am serve booze till 3 am you can figure the rest out . Anyway there is a golf course with a turn of the century main building . Ball room can seat 800 for dinner or jam about 1500 in for a stage show 4 bars and balcony alone can hold 200 was still going strong into the 80s . My father and his best friend seen Elvis there . I want to say 56 but may be a year or 2 off . Said people were just dumbstruck like they were hit by lightning . They loved it or thought he was the anti christ all further shows in Canada were banned 😎😎😎😎
 

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As an orchid grower I can do one better than coconut coir. The problem with coir is the particles are small, which means its use results in a fine texture mix. We generally want a coarse mix, with average particle size centered around 1/4 inch. Off and on for years I have been using Coconut Husk Chunks - Or Coconut Husk Chips, seedling size for orchid seedlings, usually right around 1/8to 1/4 inch size. The medium size is usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch size. I have been getting them from places like

Roberts's - they may be going out of business, stock up quick - they have many useful media, coarse perlite, hort charcoal, many other items.
http://www.orchidmix.com/

Orchids by Hausermann's - they have many useful media
 

Frozentreehugger

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As an orchid grower I can do one better than coconut coir. The problem with coir is the particles are small, which means its use results in a fine texture mix. We generally want a coarse mix, with average particle size centered around 1/4 inch. Off and on for years I have been using Coconut Husk Chunks - Or Coconut Husk Chips, seedling size for orchid seedlings, usually right around 1/8to 1/4 inch size. The medium size is usually 1/4 to 1/2 inch size. I have been getting them from places like

Roberts's - they may be going out of business, stock up quick - they have many useful media, coarse perlite, hort charcoal, many other items.
http://www.orchidmix.com/

Orchids by Hausermann's - they have many useful media
Thanks for the heads up on coco chunks . Although can’t seem to find a source anywhere near me . As I said above main interest in coco coir is it’s freeze thaw capabilities . Sucks it don’t sift well . I think it’s important to note pine bark scored second in break down when frozen . Still on the hunt for Hemlock bark . There is a Revival as such . In the use of the wood of the eastern hemlock . As something different . Trying to find a wood processor that has by product bark . I have seen info that the bark lasts longer in a pot than any other bark without breakdown and conifers especially like it . I’m sure there referring to western hemlock but beggars can’t be choosy . 😂😂
 

Frozentreehugger

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@Cajunrider bro you talked me into it got me a BC cultivar is Shawnee brave . Not destined to be a bonsai and technically not mine ( wait a minute I paid for it ) went Canada day long weekend sale shopping at the nursery was the wife’s choice as new front yard tree Hope it works out we are borderline it’s cold range 😎😎
 

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