Is there a "bad" Akadama being sold? Or is it a scam?

[bunjin]

Turface does not break down fast. Do not say things that are not true.

 

[NewtotheArt]

Even hard akadama, which I believe is what I have, I used mixed 1/3 with pumice and 1/3 lava scoria, (and a touch of spaghnum and vermicelli compost). I think at that rate the structure is held up even if the akadama decomposes. Obviously if it is turning to mush immediately, you may be right it is a quality issue,

I use almost the exact same mixture that I bought from Eastern Bonsai and it’s a great mixture! Akadama/Lava/Pumice is great on its own but I also add in 20% of spaghnum peat moss to add some organic component to it. No complaints whatsoever and very happy with the overall quality of the product. (Just be sure to sift any/all products you get to remove any remaining dirt/dust before planting)

 

[Munch9]

Up to last year, Akadama was impossible to get in Brazil, as importing soil was forbidden.
This year the law was revised and immediately some bonsai vendors had Akadama in two sizes (big/small) being sold in 14 litres bags.
All bags from all vendors looked the same; all vendors were selling the same brand.
So I ordered two bags, one of each size, to try them.
They arrived and looked like Akadama, the color (when dry or wet) was right, so I tried some in my mix, instead of the crushed bricks I am used to, and reppoted some broad leaves and pines.
To my big surprise after a week of regular watering, one of the pines was not draining at all; I inserted a finger into the soil to check and the Akadama part of the mix had turned into brown mud.
On checking, all of the trees with this mix were not draining.
I had to do an emergency repot to all plants which were using the product, and immediately trashed both bags.
Well, after asking around it seems the same product was offered in Brazil many years ago, with disastrous results to many bonsai growers.
Now reading Michael Hagedorn's book "Bonsai Heresy" I found out that the same occurred some years ago in the USA.
So I am feeling frustrated and angry as this is close to a scam. Is it possible to call any reddish clay "Akadama" even it not being the product one expects to get?
Is there good and bad Akadama being sold all around? HOW to differentiate between them?

Below is a picture of the Akadama being offered by the vendors here:

View attachment 333904

Clicio, living in Brazil, what would you recommend as a good soil mix if I can't put my hands on one hard akadama?

 

[Adair M]

Looking back on this thread...

Did you notice the little pictograms on the bag of the original poster’s akadama? It shows house plants. Akadama is used for many purposes in Japan, and one is for houseplants. That’s different from the akadama sold for bonsai use. The akadama suitable for bonsai would likely have a picture of a bonsai on it, not a houseplant.

 

[Cascading-Echinocactus]

Akadama is basically kaolin clay with various impurities (i

 

[Cascading-Echinocactus]

From what I understand akadama is basically kaolin clay with various impurities (iron oxide etc) the different grades being l: unfired or barely, this would turn into a puddle of mud quickly if used alone
ll half fired: I assume this is the grade that breaks down slowly as roots grow - a desired feature by some.
lll mostly, if not completely fired to make a calcined clay, this would be similar to LECA andu turface, the only difference being the type of clay used. Considering this, it could be very easy for an amateur to replicate this and get an inferior product.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Ya know, Brazil is lousy with acidic red clay and someday, somebody is going to bake some of it to the same good (or bad) standards that the Japanese stuff is.

 

[Adair M]

Akadama is basically kaolin clay with various impurities (i

It’s a mined product. A “volcanic clay”. It is fired, not to make it hard, but to sterilize it.

 

[Clicio]

Clicio, living in Brazil, what would you recommend as a good soil mix if I can't put my hands on one hard akadama?

I have been using "my" mix of crushed bricks (caqueira), Perlite, Peat and Lava rock (a brand called "Qualitá" here and sold by several vendors in the south, including Curitiba).
It works wonders here.

 

[Clicio]

I have been using "my" mix of crushed bricks (caqueira), Perlite, Peat and Lava rock (a brand called "Qualitá" here and sold by several vendors in the south, including Curitiba).
It works wonders here.

But you know, soil mix discussion is a declared war around here. Trust me, many will say there is a better alternative. So test on your own bonsai.
It works for me, in my climate, and all my bonsai are thriving, so...

 

[Munch9]

But you know, soil mix discussion is a declared war around here. Trust me, many will say there is a better alternative. So test on your own bonsai.
It works for me, in my climate, and all my bonsai are thriving, so...

Wonderful, I will work on that!

 

[Maiden69]

It’s a mined product. A “volcanic clay”. It is fired, not to make it hard, but to sterilize it.

Yeap, the fired akadama (if there is any in the market) is useless (I know... not my saying but Ryann's). There are some variants that are baked (low temp I think no higher than 300*F) to remove some moisture. Thanks why you can find bits and pieces of roots in the bag. What Ryann mentions is that it loses the capacity of breaking down if it is fired, which is why akadama is used, to help the root system ramify as it breaks down inside a bonsai pot. He said you could identify if it was fired because it is very hard and have a pinkish color.

 

[AlainK]

Depending on the heat and the length of the baking, the finished product will be harder or softer.

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. This might explain why some people here "bake" their akadama in the oven for about half an hour at 220/280 °C (about 430/530 °F).

This is the one I'm using, but what's written on the bags is all Greek, or rather Japanese to me :

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. This might explain why some people here "bake" their akadama in the oven for about half an hour at 220/280 °C (about 430/530 °F).

This is the one I'm using, but what's written on the bags is all Greek, or rather Japanese to me :

There are so many types out there, each brand may be a little different. However what you have there is one of the hard varieties. They sell it here in the states as well. Notice on the bag it says "hard quality" in English.

 

[AlainK]

Notice on the bag it says "hard quality" in English.

I hadn't noticed, I must see my ophtalmologist then...

 

[roberthu]

Akadama is a baked clay product. Depending on the heat and the length of the baking, the finished product will be harder or softer. I don't know every type of akadama product out there, but at least in SoCal they used to sell "soft" and "hard" product of different piece sizes. All akadama will break down sooner or later, but in my opinion the soft akadama breaks down as fast as turface. I will only buy the hard stuff, and even then it is the component that breaks down, versus pumice or lava which doesn't show much deterioration, if any.

This is probably off topic. But turface breaks down? Or were you referring to something other than the big paper bags of Turface MVP?

 

[just.wing.it]

This is my first year using akadama. I got the stuff that Alain K shows up. Double Red Line Brand or something like that.
Seems like decent stuff.....hope it doesn't go to muck too soon.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

This is probably off topic. But turface breaks down? Or were you referring to something other than the big paper bags of Turface MVP?

My experience, with the big bags of turface MVP, was that it worked perfectly for about a year, after which the pieces that were in the bottom of the pot would start break down and would form a chunky muck that would hold water too long. I went from being a big believer in it to not using it.

That said, perhaps in smaller pots, or for short-term uses, people might find it works for them. The piece size is smaller than what I would normally work with for anything larger than shohin, but it might be a good medium for cuttings or other propagation tasks.

 

[just.wing.it]

My experience, with the big bags of turface MVP, was that it worked perfectly for about a year, after which the pieces that were in the bottom of the pot would start break down and would form a chunky muck that would hold water too long. I went from being a big believer in it to not using it.

That said, perhaps in smaller pots, or for short-term uses, people might find it works for them. The piece size is smaller than what I would normally work with for anything larger than shohin, but it might be a good medium for cuttings or other propagation tasks.

I sometimes use it as an additional ingredient in a chunkier mix.....but I also use it a top dressing, just to use it. Probably won't buy any more either.

 

[roberthu]

My experience, with the big bags of turface MVP, was that it worked perfectly for about a year, after which the pieces that were in the bottom of the pot would start break down and would form a chunky muck that would hold water too long. I went from being a big believer in it to not using it.

That said, perhaps in smaller pots, or for short-term uses, people might find it works for them. The piece size is smaller than what I would normally work with for anything larger than shohin, but it might be a good medium for cuttings or other propagation tasks.

Interesting. I have not noticed turface breaking down. I am thinking what you experienced could be caused by smaller particles sinking to the bottom. But either way, clogging the bottom is not good.