The "What The Heck Should I Do With It" Thread

Messages
12,301
Likes
12,682
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
If the tree were mine I would wrap the trunk with soaked raffia very tightly and then put some really heavy wire on it. You have to make sure the wire is applied properly and it fits snugly around the trunk and that it does not move as you try to twist the trunk. It looks like Pinus Parviflora grafted onto Pinus Thunbergii?

Sometimes it helps if you guys would tell us what kind or species of tree we are dealing with.

That being said it is necessary to squash down the trunk but carefully. If the tree is grafted you do not want to put too much stress on the graft. Parviflora is no where near as flexible as Mugo, so make these extreme bends slowly giving the wood a chance to adjust to the strain on it. Do it too much you are likely to break the trunk. Realize that the raffia is not to keep the wire from damaging the trunk but to keep the trunk from fracturing. That's why it has to be tight and why the bends need to be accomplished over the time span of a couple of days.
 
Messages
211
Likes
150
Location
Long Island, New York
If the tree were mine I would wrap the trunk with soaked raffia very tightly and then put some really heavy wire on it. You have to make sure the wire is applied properly and it fits snugly around the trunk and that it does not move as you try to twist the trunk. It looks like Pinus Parviflora grafted onto Pinus Thunbergii?

Sometimes it helps if you guys would tell us what kind or species of tree we are dealing with.

That being said it is necessary to squash down the trunk but carefully. If the tree is grafted you do not want to put too much stress on the graft. Parviflora is no where near as flexible as Mugo, so make these extreme bends slowly giving the wood a chance to adjust to the strain on it. Do it too much you are likely to break the trunk. Realize that the raffia is not to keep the wire from damaging the trunk but to keep the trunk from fracturing. That's why it has to be tight and why the bends need to be accomplished over the time span of a couple of days.
Sorry I didn't clarify. It is a white pine looks to be grafted onto black pine. I agree it needs to be more compact and bend so the silhouette isn't as tall. I was reading upon bending techniques on the Peter Tea blog. He states that bending older branches is a lot easier. Does it makes sense if I wait a couple of years so the trunk matures more so it would be easier to bend.
 

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,581
Likes
3,408
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
He states that bending older branches is a lot easier. Does it makes sense if I wait a couple of years so the trunk matures more so it would be easier to bend.
I can't confirm it. They grow and develop slowly, but branches thicken pretty soon. I'd say as for bending, the sooner the better. Could you provide the link to mentioned article?
 
Messages
211
Likes
150
Location
Long Island, New York
I can't confirm it. They grow and develop slowly, but branches thicken pretty soon. I'd say as for bending, the sooner the better. Could you provide the link to mentioned article?
The tree can handle such harsh bends during this time? I thought winter was the ideal time to do any type of heavy bends on conifers.

Here's the article.
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/lets-bend-repost/
There's 4 more articles about bending
 

petegreg

Masterpiece
Messages
2,581
Likes
3,408
Location
Slovakia
USDA Zone
6a
The tree can handle such harsh bends during this time? I thought winter was the ideal time to do any type of heavy bends on conifers.

Here's the article.
https://peterteabonsai.wordpress.com/2011/08/17/lets-bend-repost/
There's 4 more articles about bending
No, I'm not saying do it right now, you can wait for best season as you mentioned. However the Pines book says:" JWPs can be wired almost any time of year. Our preference is to wire during the growing season (early spring to early fall)." ...if we are careful enough not to knock off newly forming buds...
Thank you for the link.
 

sorce

Nonsense Rascal
Messages
19,660
Likes
25,473
Location
Berwyn, Il
USDA Zone
6.2
And the longer you wait, the better the bark you may damage!

I don't think you're getting it anywhere close to where it needs to be without relief cuts.

I'm about to post some pics of the spruce I cut and bent.
It's still alive, wether or not it will heal and hold....dunno...

But it gave me a new comfort level with cutting/notching and bending....

With proper raffia or alternative, and a little more experience with it...
I wouldn't be afraid to give it a go on a good tree.

The top seems a good place for you to practice.
More vigorous but with less overall growth than the low parts, it can be a great starting point seeing as how if it fails, you'll still have foliage below it! And a tree!

Sorce
 
Messages
12,301
Likes
12,682
Location
Michigan
USDA Zone
5-6
If you are considering taking relief or wedge cuts the traditional time to do this is in the middle of the summer. Do not approach this process lightly it has to be done right and you have to pay attention to detail. Ryan Neil has a video on this subject and the Craftsy site has one as well.
 

JudyB

Queen of the Nuts
Messages
10,843
Likes
12,916
Location
South East of Cols. OH
USDA Zone
5
View attachment 157095

Hmmmm. This is an interesting creature that requires much contemplation.
I think I would make two compositions or more with this one, take the straighter trees out and make a 3 tree forest, and keep the squirrely ones together. Or make two out of the crazy stuff. The shot from the back with the 3 trunk clump would be good by itself.
 

vario

Yamadori
Messages
64
Likes
30
Location
Maryland
USDA Zone
7a
Here is my Parson's Juniper. Could use some advice on where to take this thing. I pruned it about 1 month ago so this is more of a long term planning thing, I don't want to overwork the tree in a short time. You can see a large cut wound on the base of the large thick leader right above the soil in the last photo right side where I removed a big branch. So far it has handled it very well. I have had some anxiety about the prospect of wiring it. Also I have wondered if I should just cut the two lesser branches off at the base and just keep the big main one or if that would be a really bad idea. Some of the stubbed branches on the leader are just there to thicken the leader's trunk, and I am also hoping they will back bud a bit so I can reduce them shorter so the foliage is closer to the trunk. I also plan to make that jinned area have a deadwood vein.
IMG_2422.JPG IMG_2423.JPG IMG_2424.JPG IMG_2425.JPG
Probably the front:
IMG_2426.JPG
Top Down:
IMG_2427.JPG
Shows the trunk wound closure center right side:
IMG_2428.JPG
 
Last edited:

0soyoung

Masterpiece
Messages
4,398
Likes
6,391
Location
Anacortes, WA
USDA Zone
8b
The 'overworking' that I think you need to worry about @vario, concerns how solidly the tree is anchored in the container. Wiring involves a lot of tugging and jiggling that can severely damage roots if the tree is not quite securely 'strapped in'. It is pretty much irrelevant that you did some trimming recently.

I don't think junipers back bud much onto old/brown wood - budding is 'only' going to happen on the green 'stems'.

So, you may want to think about grafting to get foliage where you want it to be. Customarily this is done in late winter (or early spring) just before the sap starts flowing, however you might try some grafts late this year if you don't have hard freezes. In my area, people are having better results doing with late season grafts. Alternatively (and maybe better) you may want to try approach grafting if those spindly extra branches can be appropriately positioned.
 

vario

Yamadori
Messages
64
Likes
30
Location
Maryland
USDA Zone
7a
The 'overworking' that I think you need to worry about @vario, concerns how solidly the tree is anchored in the container. Wiring involves a lot of tugging and jiggling that can severely damage roots if the tree is not quite securely 'strapped in'. It is pretty much irrelevant that you did some trimming recently.

I don't think junipers back bud much onto old/brown wood - budding is 'only' going to happen on the green 'stems'.

So, you may want to think about grafting to get foliage where you want it to be. Customarily this is done in late winter (or early spring) just before the sap starts flowing, however you might try some grafts late this year if you don't have hard freezes. In my area, people are having better results doing with late season grafts. Alternatively (and maybe better) you may want to try approach grafting if those spindly extra branches can be appropriately positioned.
Do you think the two other trunks are worth keeping? The juniper is strapped down with wire pretty secure but the thing is I have never wired anything before besides tying them into the pots.
 
Last edited:

Vin

Imperial Masterpiece
Messages
5,075
Likes
7,094
Location
Panama City, FL Zone 9a/8b Centr
USDA Zone
8b
Here is my Parson's Juniper. Could use some advice on where to take this thing. I pruned it about 1 month ago so this is more of a long term planning thing, I don't want to overwork the tree in a short time. You can see a large cut wound on the base of the large thick leader right above the soil in the last photo right side where I removed a big branch. So far it has handled it very well. I have had some anxiety about the prospect of wiring it. Also I have wondered if I should just cut the two lesser branches off at the base and just keep the big main one or if that would be a really bad idea. Some of the stubbed branches on the leader are just there to thicken the leader's trunk, and I am also hoping they will back bud a bit so I can reduce them shorter so the foliage is closer to the trunk. I also plan to make that jinned area have a deadwood vein.
View attachment 158773 View attachment 158774 View attachment 158775 View attachment 158776
Probably the front:
View attachment 158777
Top Down:
View attachment 158779
Shows the trunk wound closure center right side:
View attachment 158780
I'd be inclined to ditch those two smaller trunks and work on bringing the larger trunk more upright. Once you have established it in a suitable position, after a couple years of letting just grow you can work on a final image. Just my two cents.
 

Similar threads