Where to purchase Diatomaceous earth...large particles

[Eckhoffw]

Totally down with whatever works. I use DE and calcined clay regularly in my soil mixes.
I like being able to pick up these products whenever is needed.
I haven’t used akadama much as cost is a factor. However I just ordered this. Seems affordable enough. 4 quarts for 40$ hmmm..View attachment 417119View attachment 417120

Just received My akadama today......
Should of checked my math.
Here is a picture of what I got.
Yep. That’s 4 qts. It is what I ordered. It looks good enough, But that big bag they show you is rather deceptive.
I will continue to sift DE and Calcined Clay for the time being.

 

[PonderingSage:]

Yeah, I sift out the fines. I guess l am preferring a slightly larger particle size overall, and that would remove most of the DE. So the lava and pumice are slightly larger…still seems to mix ok.

 

[penumbra]

They say it is calcined clay, but I would bet it is fired at a much higher temp than turface or floor dri. Products.
It looks like it a good particle shape and size too.

That was quick It came yesterday. I really like the looks of it and size particles is perfect and consistent. Jack answered my question right away and the firing temp is between 1600 and 2000.
I will open a bag and take pictures tomorrow.

 

[Eckhoffw]

Good to hear.
I believe the Oil dri I buy is only fired to 750.

 

[August44]

That was quick It came yesterday. I really like the looks of it and size particles is perfect and consistent. Jack answered my question right away and the firing temp is between 1600 and 2000.
I will open a bag and take pictures tomorrow.

Are you talking about Bonsai Jacks soil? Which one? I have used his soil a lot and it is very clean and consistent at 1/4"

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

Maybe the 8822 would just make a nice additive for cuttings since it is smaller particle size and stays wet. I’m not using it in bonsai pots after seeing it. It’s going to cut down oxygen with all those small particles.

 

[penumbra]

Are you talking about Bonsai Jacks soil? Which one? I have used his soil a lot and it is very clean and consistent at 1/4"

The Bonsai Block referenced.

 

[Gr8tfuldad]

That was quick It came yesterday. I really like the looks of it and size particles is perfect and consistent. Jack answered my question right away and the firing temp is between 1600 and 2000.
I will open a bag and take pictures tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Bricker918]

I‘m also thrifty so I also wash, heat and reuse my media, This cuts the costs drastically as each batch once sifted only needs about 1/2 the normal amount of akadama. I can deal with that cost.

What is your method for washing/heating it? I’ve been saving some of my used akadama mix and have been wondering what a good method for this is.

 

[yashu]

I have been using the Napa product with scoria and a couple other additives with good success. Akadama is a no go for me as I don’t even get a full season before it breaks down. Basically a complete waste of money and absolutely detrimental to the health of the trees. Just from my own experience I would never suggest it’s use in zones 5 and lower. That said I’ve had very little break down of the DE product even though I see cycles with high points in the 40’s and lows around -20°F. Below are photos of 2 trees repotted last spring and a photo of the akadama prior to use. First photo is the DE mix, second is straight akadama and the third is virgin akadama. FWIW, this is my experience in the northeast US, zone 4/5 YMMV.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

There are other reasons to not use akafama . For us in the north it doesn’t not hold up to freezing . Several tests have been done just a few freeze thaw cycles turns it to dust . I have never seen a test using it as a percentage . But main reaso. I’m adding to this post . Is the alternatives are basically baked or heated clay products . They all have Warnings on these products . That these products especially the dust is bad for the respiratory system . S0 WEAR BREATHING PROTECTION . When you sift it . This is not a minor thing to ignore . I am a automotive technician . These products are used as oil and fluid absorption . I know people that have damaged there lungs with . Lack of care using these products. My practice is to sift all products outside . Wearing a mask . Don’t imagine lava dust is good for you also

 

[john blanch]

DE, Diatomite based medium is now thought to be counter productive for use as a growing medium. Diatomites are fossilised sea dwelling creatures that are shown to have fungicidal and insecticidal properties. Plain calcined clay is a better product.

 

[yashu]

DE, Diatomite based medium is now thought to be counter productive for use as a growing medium. Diatomites are fossilised sea dwelling creatures that are shown to have fungicidal and insecticidal properties. Plain calcined clay is a better product.

Interesting, can you provide a source for the fungicidal claim? The reason that diatomaceous earth works as an insecticide (and only in powdered form) is because the microscopic edges of the diatoms break down the exoskeleton of insects and cause them to desiccate. This is not an issue considering the larger particle with respect to beneficial insects.

 

[yashu]

DE, Diatomite based medium is now thought to be counter productive for use as a growing medium. Diatomites are fossilised sea dwelling creatures that are shown to have fungicidal and insecticidal properties. Plain calcined clay is a better product.

I’m just following up on this a little since my own personal experience is completely contrary to your claim so I did a quick search and could find absolutely no evidence of DE being detrimental to mycorrhizae in soil mixes. If you have any non-anecdotal evidence I’d be very interested in checking it out as I’d like to think that I’m not damaging my trees and I certainly would not want to be steering people in the wrong direction.

 

[doctorater]

DE, Diatomite based medium is now thought to be counter productive for use as a growing medium. Diatomites are fossilised sea dwelling creatures that are shown to have fungicidal and insecticidal properties. Plain calcined clay is a better product.

I call for a source to support your claim and I call for @sorce to dispute it.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

I’m just following up on this a little since my own personal experience is completely contrary to your claim so I did a quick search and could find absolutely no evidence of DE being detrimental to mycorrhizae in soil mixes. If you have any non-anecdotal evidence I’d be very interested in checking it out as I’d like to think that I’m not damaging my trees and I certainly would not want to be steering people in the wrong direction.

Check out these links

Does Diatomaceous Earth Kill Fungus?

Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a fine chalk-like white powder. It is made up of fossilized remains. The single-celled aquatic microorganism that they are made of is called diatoms. But Does diatomaceous earth kill fungus? Yes,

gardeningbank.com

(PDF) Use of Diatomaceous Earth for the Management of Stored Product Pests

PDF | Diatomaceous earth (DE) is almost pure amorphous silicon dioxide, made up of fossilised diatoms; it acts as an insecticide by absorption of... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

… at least some of the science research is about fine particle DE, large particle should act in a similar manner…. yet DE appears to work as a desiccant and one would think the constant watering done in bonsai would tend to at least somewhat negate the desiccant properties.

…however there have been multiple reports on BN of users putting DE as a component of their media, especially tropical…. There also are user reports that say DE keeps insect populations in the media to near zero…. so some of the insecticidal properties and likely the fungicidal properties of DE remain intact in bonsai media.

This topic would make a really cool research study!

cheers
DSD sends

 

[john blanch]

An Introduction to Bonsai Soils – Bonsai4Me

www.bonsai4me.co.uk

 

[LittleDingus]

Check out these links

Does Diatomaceous Earth Kill Fungus?

Diatomaceous earth (DE) is a fine chalk-like white powder. It is made up of fossilized remains. The single-celled aquatic microorganism that they are made of is called diatoms. But Does diatomaceous earth kill fungus? Yes,

gardeningbank.com

(PDF) Use of Diatomaceous Earth for the Management of Stored Product Pests

PDF | Diatomaceous earth (DE) is almost pure amorphous silicon dioxide, made up of fossilised diatoms; it acts as an insecticide by absorption of... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

… at least some of the science research is about fine particle DE, large particle should act in a similar manner…. yet DE appears to work as a desiccant and one would think the constant watering done in bonsai would tend to at least somewhat negate the desiccant properties.

…however there have been multiple reports on BN of users putting DE as a component of their media, especially tropical…. There also are user reports that say DE keeps insect populations in the media to near zero…. so some of the insecticidal properties and likely the fungicidal properties of DE remain intact in bonsai media.

This topic would make a really cool research study!

cheers
DSD sends

I grow numerous things in 100% DE: NAPA 8822.

One way it keeps insect populations down is the same way other inorganic soils keep insect populations down: no decaying mater for the insects to eat/lay eggs in. The sharp edges do rip into snails and slugs and the fine powder does get into the plates of small insects as well. But it does need to be powdered for that.

I can also attest that mycorrhizae grows just fine in DE...provided there is some organic matter mixed in to feed it. I mix in coco coir and/or fir bark to provide structure at times. I've had mushrooms in my oaks with as high as 70% DE. I also routinely get crusted soil indicative of mycorrhizae...sometimes so encrusted I need to rake it to break it up to drain water better. Like most (all?) Inorganic soils...some organic material should be mixed in to aid fungal growth.

DE is a dissicant when dry. Dry DE can pull moisture out of roots. Like all other soils, one must learn how to water effectively for the individual soil characteristics. It is so important to understand watering and not simply try and follow some formula.

 

[penumbra]

I grow numerous things in 100% DE: NAPA 8822.

One way it keeps insect populations down is the same way other inorganic soils keep insect populations down: no decaying mater for the insects to eat/lay eggs in. The sharp edges do rip into snails and slugs and the fine powder does get into the plates of small insects as well. But it does need to be powdered for that.

I can also attest that mycorrhizae grows just fine in DE...provided there is some organic matter mixed in to feed it. I mix in coco coir and/or fir bark to provide structure at times. I've had mushrooms in my oaks with as high as 70% DE. I also routinely get crusted soil indicative of mycorrhizae...sometimes so encrusted I need to rake it to break it up to drain water better. Like most (all?) Inorganic soils...some organic material should be mixed in to aid fungal growth.

DE is a dissicant when dry. Dry DE can pull moisture out of roots. Like all other soils, one must learn how to water effectively for the individual soil characteristics. It is so important to understand watering and not simply try and follow some formula.

Thanks for posting this very lucid response.

 

[sorce]

I'm with DSD on it's wetness negating the dessicated properties.
I have pictures of earthworms in my 90%DE soil.

Lol....in researching how long we've mined DE...
"In 1836 or 1837, German peasant Peter Kasten discovered diatomaceous earth (German: Kieselgur) when sinking a well on the northern slopes of the Haußelberg hill, in the Lüneburg Heath in North Germany. The deposits are up to 28 meters (92 ft) thick and are all of freshwater diatomaceous earth."

I learned August 31st is "National DE Day".

You know what that means!
Marketing!

Everytime they are trying sell you BS, it becomes a "day".

We can't think it took 200 years to notice something kills bugs or fungus, how did we just find this stuff out a few years ago?

Anyway that first article sounds suspect....
"Conclusion
Does diatomaceous earth kill fungus? Yes. This article has revealed that it not only kills fungus, it also kills other external parasites."

Lol, no worries it was fact checked! Lol!

Proper informational writings would conclude, "our cited sources and investigative observations have revealed".

No, they just say it's so cuz they say it! BS!

.
Of firing temp.....

I reckon since DE is fired in a Rotary Kiln to rather loose tolerances the large DE, wether sifted prefire or after, would tend to gather more heat as it would air in a mix.

The temps are likely set the same.

Point being we will always see variation in quality from time to time, since this product is made to throw on the floor.

Sorce