World Class trees (IMO)

Sandy,

not enough time has passed for the training of Tropical trees, as has passed for Chinese and Japanese trees.
Mostly triangles on trunks, with flashes of inspiration here and there or as we say green hats on large trunks.

I am not a world voice - but - I would say, yes, world class.
However, I would also say the formula for those trees have been well worked out for years.

And I do - sigh - wish you guys wouldn't argue so much.
This place is very much akin to - an evening get together where ideas are shared - not a rum shop.
Also speaking to Stacy.
Often makes me sad.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Amen, I don't usually use live bait,

But I'm taking this Can of Worms fishing!

Speaking of Cake, I...no....she, spent $120 dollars on a cake for my boys birthday, Minions, real pretty, tasted like worms.

Yesterday, celebrated my daughter's bday with a Jewel cake, tasted better, and when my wife dropped 2/3's of it face down on the floor, it wasn't a terrible loss!

Royals are up!

Hey @Anthony , you know, a while back, when you sent me some PM's on BSG, with the email attachments of the buildings......

I never opened them and started thinking someone hacked your account and sent me some BS... why.....those PM's lacked "good day"! So I'm a little paranoid!

I would still love to see those buildings! And more shots from the Island!

Good Morning!

Sorce
 
Sorce.

AND a very good morning to you, today cloudy/sunny and maybe rain.

I thought you never got them. Please remind me of what you needed to see.

Yeah, K's nephew Nick, wants to send you to some Gorge in the Northern Range, where our version of rattlers mate in the Dry Season, with your pocketknife.
I am trying to find an image.

As soon as the Mayaro house is finished -------- instant invitation -------- got an international driver's license ?
All you have to pay for is gas, cooking gas and your own food. Beach life / fishing and more fishing.
Good Day
Anthony
 
Sorce.

AND a very good morning to you, today cloudy/sunny and maybe rain.

I thought you never got them. Please remind me of what you needed to see.

Yeah, K's nephew Nick, wants to send you to some Gorge in the Northern Range, where our version of rattlers mate in the Dry Season, with your pocketknife.
I am trying to find an image.

As soon as the Mayaro house is finished -------- instant invitation -------- got an international driver's license ?
All you have to pay for is gas, cooking gas and your own food. Beach life / fishing and more fishing.
Good Day
Anthony

I'll pick him up on the way!
 
I've always thought Walters Japanese maple #1 was world class since the first time I saw it.
It looks like a healthy,natural maple shape I see everywhere. It made me think a great bonsai doesn't have to look like it's struggled against nature for a hundred years.
 
I've always thought Walters Japanese maple #1 was world class since the first time I saw it.
It looks like a healthy,natural maple shape I see everywhere. It made me think a great bonsai doesn't have to look like it's struggled against nature for a hundred years.
I almost (or do) pefer the look of a common natural form because, let's be honest, you don't see those contorted, twisted, beaten tree forms except for When you go hiking which isn't very often.

I don't care much for the first two junipers. They don't look like trees to me. Green helmets on a mass of deadwood. Would I enjoy owning them? Yes I would. But do they deserve titles as being some of the best? Not really imho.

Burn me at stake.
 
I think the pots work very well.

Sorce
 
What would be interesting would be to have photos of these 4 trees before they started their bonsai development, or at least very early in their training. The junipers may have looked a lot like Stacy's buttonwood - probably a mass of crazy deadwood with straggly foliage growing out of the top. Would one have claimed them to be world class at that time? Probably not. And the maples, probably looked even less like world class trees at that stage of development...may have just been big trunks.

So it's really not fair to compare trees like this to the kinds of trees Stacy is talking about, they're nowhere near the same stage of development. The question is, can someone (Stacy or others) take that material and turn it into something like this? Is it just a matter of time and technique?

If you look through Bill V's book (Classic Bonsai Art), some of his spectacular maples (especially tridents), started out as chopped nursery trees - just a trunk. It took 30-40 years to develop them...but one certainly wouldn't have referred to that material as world class at the time.
 
These are what I would consider potential world class caliber trees.

View attachment 85346 View attachment 85347
Photo credit: Bonsai Mirai


View attachment 85348 View attachment 85349
Photo credit: Walter Pall Bonsai

Why? If you cant see why by looking at these trees, I am sorry I cant explain it to you.....
Certainly... Especially Walter's trees! You picked two of my favorite Bonsai!
The Junipers are very nice as well, but I think Ryan's mentor has created gardens full of trees as good or better in Japan!
 
Guys, a question for you -

Okay so this guy paints a woman, let us call her - La Gioconda - and it is acclaimed to be the greatest portrait in the world - ever.
World class.

Another copies the painting, another does her as monkey, but no one says - world class, because in the West we don't promote copying or do we ?

So a Japanese guy grows a tree into what becomes the trademark of say - A Maple - somewhere in the past - and another copies, the shape, and another and another .........., how come we don't look for the first guy and praise his ability ?
Just wondering ?
Good Day
Anthony
 
Guys, a question for you -

Okay so this guy paints a woman, let us call her - La Gioconda - and it is acclaimed to be the greatest portrait in the world - ever.
World class.

Another copies the painting, another does her as monkey, but no one says - world class, because in the West we don't promote copying or do we ?

So a Japanese guy grows a tree into what becomes the trademark of say - A Maple - somewhere in the past - and another copies, the shape, and another and another .........., how come we don't look for the first guy and praise his ability ?
Just wondering ?
Good Day
Anthony
Because the work you see today may have looked pretty crappy 50 years ago when started by John Doe......
 
A tree @Anthony is a living thing...so in my mind's eye...never exactly alike. I see us choosing styles...slant,cascade and such...but each tree has its own thumbprint so to speak. Never to be exactly duplicated. I don't see copying...but a guideline...
 
@Anthony

I think we can't find that guy to praise him......

But if our hearts are pure, we thank him in the creation of our trees.

If we do not, Earth takes its tree back.

They are trees of the Earth. No matter who owns them, who awards them, etc.

We merely tend them!

Sorce
 
Certainly... Especially Walter's trees! You picked two of my favorite Bonsai!
The Junipers are very nice as well, but I think Ryan's mentor has created gardens full of trees as good or better in Japan!

You are correct in that Kimura certainly has as good and better trees without a doubt. I probably could have found pictures of some of his trees instead of Ryan's.
Please note, I wasnt picking trees solely on name recognition. As we know, all of the people mentioned are recognized for their quality bonsai.
I just didnt have the time to do an intensive search at the time, however that doesnt change my opinion of the trees I picked.
 
I almost (or do) pefer the look of a common natural form because, let's be honest, you don't see those contorted, twisted, beaten tree forms except for When you go hiking which isn't very often.

I don't care much for the first two junipers. They don't look like trees to me. Green helmets on a mass of deadwood. Would I enjoy owning them? Yes I would. But do they deserve titles as being some of the best? Not really imho.

Burn me at stake.
I'm with you on this one.

I actually prefer trees that look like those I see around me. Gnarly junipers can be quite impressive, but those don't naturally grow around me like they do in the western US. I tend to prefer deciduous species myself, but a great pine or larch is always good too.

For me, the best indication of a great tree is whether or not everything works at the chosen scale. Does the ratio of trunk size to branch size work? Does it have realistic looking ramification and a leaf/needle size to match? Is it realistic enough that you can imagine yourself sitting underneath that tree on a warm summer afternoon?

Big gnarly deadwood, while technically impressive, isn't an automatic indicator of whether I like the tree. I need to be able to look at it and imagine how that dead wood got there, and not every tree needs to be an ancient methuselah. Sure, the ancient looking ones are great, but I actually like the look of mature, but not ancient, trees as well. Deadwood for the sake of deadwood can become gratuitous, and if not executed well, often makes me just want to cut it back (or off).

Maybe if I lived somewhere where there were lots of gnarly, deadwood junipers around me in nature, I might prefer the gnarly deadwood style. I can appreciate them for what they are (and like you, wouldn't turn them away if they showed up here), but I don't long to re-create them like I do with Walter's maples.
 
I see it as two main ideas
Naturalized- Styling is as close to the species natural growth habit as possible
Japanese/Traditional- Left, right, front, back, etc etc.

Both are attractive to me. I think we tend to gravitate towards the traditional styling more because we have more examples and step to step processes available to pull from. My .02
 
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