…And We Thought It Was All About The Trees
- Thread starter Vin
- Start date
Vin
Imperial Masterpiece
Look, I’m obviously not a Master or even an Apprentice. Hell, I barely know what “good bonsai” even is. But I’d bet a dollar to a donut that if any one of these displays were at a show in the U.S. there would be crowds of viewers around them oohing and awing. Yes, some will just shake their head and pass by without even a quick look at the tree. Do the settings make the tree any less of a bonsai than those displayed more traditionally?
To me, they force the mind to ask questions about the work (tree); who, what, where, when, why and how. If every Artist painted the same landscape, object or subject the same way then art would be pretty damn boring. Creativity is what motivates us to be different. It’s how we express ourselves and how we move others. Didn’t someone once say “art has no boundaries”? Boundaries are limitations and in my humble opinion bonsai has none.
To me, they force the mind to ask questions about the work (tree); who, what, where, when, why and how. If every Artist painted the same landscape, object or subject the same way then art would be pretty damn boring. Creativity is what motivates us to be different. It’s how we express ourselves and how we move others. Didn’t someone once say “art has no boundaries”? Boundaries are limitations and in my humble opinion bonsai has none.
brewmeister83
Chumono
I think you should take a serious look at High Gothic to Renaissance artwork, you might revise your statement above. Up until relatively modern times, artistically speaking, artwork was a craft - it wasn't meant to be the singular expression of the artist.
What I never understand is why, in making something "new", so many people go off the deep end of creativity. If one wants to take a modern Western approach to bonsai display why not just set up a standard display, but adjust it to display Western iconography or mythology in a thoughtful manner. I think that, skillfully done, it can be just as profound as throwing a curveball design-wise. I'll give you an example, here's a pic of a traditional Japanese display "tweaked" in photoshop with Western imagery. Tell me if this makes a strong statement or not given it's only three objects to convey a message:
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Eric Group
Masterpiece
That is really not what I was saying at all, no.
What I was saying was- whether talking about THIS work/ display or not- innovation, change, PROGRESSION is needed in any art form to stay alive and improve. More than minute tweaks to technique like whether or not you should "pinch" a Juniper is needed if Bonsai is going to continue to grow and achieve more as an art form. The point about attracting others to it was concerning the integration of multiple mediums into these displays.., what he is doing it allowing other artists a place in the display without the need for them to be able to create world class Bonsai. Sculptures, paintings, multi-media works are integrated into his displays and give others the chance to participate without committing decades to learning and growing Bonsai. This is a potential way to widen the appeal. That was my point.. I am not even exactly sure what you were saying, but I hope that clarifies my POV a little bit.
brewmeister83
Chumono
I agree, progression is required or else artistic stagnation might follow - and who doesn't like to "ooo" and "ahhhh" at something new? However, we must be careful and realize that in our being progressive with bonsai display that the focus remains on the trees. The second these displays start focusing on the other "stuff" more than the focal point of the tree, it is no longer bonsai but has become mixed media. This is probably the artistic reason why traditional Japanese display is as minimalist and refined as it is - they probably figured out long ago that adding too many figurines/rocks/etc. (penjing anyone?) detracts from the aesthetic of the tree. These Robert Stephens displays are starting to walk that fine line, which is probably why people are subconsciously (or perhaps consciously) reacting to them the way they are.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Man,you guys really worry about thus art stuff! Chromed manikin hands,naked dudes,broken glass tables all askew.
And bonsai.
Art at the highest level.
And bonsai.
Art at the highest level.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Vin
Imperial Masterpiece
I know, that Teddy Bear photo is just too cute..
I'm not qualified to answer but I do know you ruined a darn good photograph.
brewmeister83
Chumono
Yeah, us silly humans try to label and differentiate stuff, even ambiguous stuff like art. It's a shame that since it's art we can't use rules and guidelines to differentiate good bonsai from bad bonsai, bonsai from other types of art in an exhibition, or even bonsai from a random plant stuck in a pot.... because it's all art...
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Ok so I in fact didn't understand what you were saying.
I was mislead by your 1st sentence 'From what I have read of Bonsai in Japan, it basically IS dying off because very few young people are getting involved.'
I though you meant: it's dying because few young people are getting involved 'in bonsai' (i.e. in making the bonsai). That's why I asked: do you think that putting a bunch on stuff around will get more young guys into the making of bonsai?
In fact you meant that if young peoples are allowed to display their paintings - for example - in a composition with a bonsai then more will come and could collaborate with the bonsai artist.
This I have no problem with.
But in fact don't get me wrong: I have no problem with the displays above, I didn't even know that their was a strict code to display in shows.
The only thing I was saying is that it's not bonsai anymore or if you prefer not just bonsai anymore. It becomes something else whatever you want to call it, 'collaboration on a bonsai basis' for example. The bonsai itself remains the tree in the middle and the art of bonsai remains the art of bringing a home depot tree to that.
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That's exactly what I was trying to say - totally consciously - since my 1st post, in these displays the focus is basically everywhere (including on 'what the hell does he try to tell me?') but on the tree, which is kind of sad due to the quality of them.
In fact for me no display at all is perfect, just the tree on a table and that's it, if the tree if strong enough it will not need anything else, not even a nice pot.
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Vin
Imperial Masterpiece
No argument there
Told you it works
The title is: "I'm starting to be wired of all that crap"
Not to M. Frary: no Teddy bear was hurt in the making of this piece
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Now if someone puts a politicians head on a chair I'll call that art! Any politician will do.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
It's something that needs tried out here also.Actually we French people did that a lot in the 1790th something...
michaelj
Chumono
They didn't pinch. They clipped back at a joint.
dick benbow
Omono
for those who reside near seattle, washington, you'll be exposed to something similar with the Pacific bonsai Museum this year (2016). A toko display will substitute skateboard art for scroll
with various trees. I'm sure there will be those who find it rather extreme, and yet maybe interesting to the next younger generation to be attracted to the hobby. Curiously, the spray can art
reminds me of some of the kanji letters. I'm trying to keep an "open" mind about it...
I attended the Ryan Neil event in Portland this past fall. it had a good draw of people. The lighted event opening night was quite memorable. From the folks I talked with most were impressed. I was quite bored with the majority of BIG yamadori subjects and actually appreciated some smaller nursery stock trees that were carefully worked over the decades. I was an art major in school preparing to be a High School art teacher. So I understood the importance of challenging the "norm". As far as american bonsai, I'm trying to incorporate more american trees into my collection that are modeled after their look in nature.
with various trees. I'm sure there will be those who find it rather extreme, and yet maybe interesting to the next younger generation to be attracted to the hobby. Curiously, the spray can art
reminds me of some of the kanji letters. I'm trying to keep an "open" mind about it...
I attended the Ryan Neil event in Portland this past fall. it had a good draw of people. The lighted event opening night was quite memorable. From the folks I talked with most were impressed. I was quite bored with the majority of BIG yamadori subjects and actually appreciated some smaller nursery stock trees that were carefully worked over the decades. I was an art major in school preparing to be a High School art teacher. So I understood the importance of challenging the "norm". As far as american bonsai, I'm trying to incorporate more american trees into my collection that are modeled after their look in nature.
JudyB
Queen of the Nuts
Well that sounds interesting, you'll have to post some photos of the exhibit. I think we could all use a little open mindedness, personal preferences aside. I like the focus to be on the tree instead of the accoutrements, but if it's fitting, then why not let others display their POV. Nice to see you here again Dick, hope you are well!for those who reside near seattle, washington, you'll be exposed to something similar with the Pacific bonsai Museum this year (2016). A toko display will substitute skateboard art for scroll
with various trees. I'm sure there will be those who find it rather extreme, and yet maybe interesting to the next younger generation to be attracted to the hobby. Curiously, the spray can art
reminds me of some of the kanji letters. I'm trying to keep an "open" mind about it...
I attended the Ryan Neil event in Portland this past fall. it had a good draw of people. The lighted event opening night was quite memorable. From the folks I talked with most were impressed. I was quite bored with the majority of BIG yamadori subjects and actually appreciated some smaller nursery stock trees that were carefully worked over the decades. I was an art major in school preparing to be a High School art teacher. So I understood the importance of challenging the "norm". As far as american bonsai, I'm trying to incorporate more american trees into my collection that are modeled after their look in nature.
