Chinese Elm Suggest Away!

[another_alexander]

I recently received this Chinese Elm via an online auction.

I’m well aware of the preparations and patience it takes for a while to allow this tree to get back into a proper growth.

However, if you were gifted this tree, what steps would you take and/or what experimentation would you take?

I’ll post an update (hopefully) in a few months with some growth!

 

[jszg]

Looks like Wigerts Chinese elm. Very tough trees, strong growers. Once it is acclimated, I personally would work the roots hard, reduce the branches to primary structure, and cross my fingers.

 

[another_alexander]

Well spotted! It is indeed a Wigert’s Bonsai! First time getting one of their trees. However, very happy with how it arrived. Looking forward to taking that suggestion, much appreciated!

 

[Shibui]

There's nothing except leaves for scale but I'm guessing the trunk is around finger thick?

Just one 2D shot doesn't give much to work on as we can't see where branches start and finish in relation to the trunk and other branches. Also no visible roots so not certain if the trunk could be longer than what's seen or whether nebari is one sided, etc but a couple of initial observations.

Initial impression is twin trunk because of the low fork but on closer look at the smaller trunk it appears very straight with no taper. Maybe possible to chop it low and regrow to get bends and taper but maybe not worth the time and effort.

Remove the low 2nd trunk for a broom like style using the 3 or 4 larger trunks up higher. How that goes will depend on the angles of each of those main stems and where they have main side branches which is not clear in the photo among the tangle of shoots up there.

Informal upright possible using left side branch as 1st branch and one of the 2 larger upright branches as continuation of the trunk.

Any label with a variety name on this one? The leaves appear to be small and some old leaves still hanging on at this time of year gives me the impression of what I know as 'Catlin'. Unfortunately that one is slower and more difficult to ramify than most other types in my experience.

 

[Maiden69]

Any label with a variety name on this one? The leaves appear to be small and some old leaves still hanging on at this time of year gives me the impression of what I know as 'Catlin'. Unfortunately that one is slower and more difficult to ramify than most other types in my experience.

Could be, I have only seen the contorta in person, the bark is slightly greyer but very similar. Definitely not a drake or any other flaky or cork bark variety.

I would let this one grow until post flush hardening and then cut all crossing branches, branches growing straight up or down that don't contribute to the aesthetics of the tree, and bring all junctions down to 2. Elm trees are very strong growers on your climate and they will develop swelling joints (inverse taper) that will make the tree look odd.

If you become serious at the hobby, Jonas (bonsaitonight.com) offers classes, right now on hold but if you contact him he could offer some guidance through emails... ask me how I know And he is a few hours away from you.

 

[another_alexander]

There's nothing except leaves for scale but I'm guessing the trunk is around finger thick?

Just one 2D shot doesn't give much to work on as we can't see where branches start and finish in relation to the trunk and other branches. Also no visible roots so not certain if the trunk could be longer than what's seen or whether nebari is one sided, etc but a couple of initial observations.

Initial impression is twin trunk because of the low fork but on closer look at the smaller trunk it appears very straight with no taper. Maybe possible to chop it low and regrow to get bends and taper but maybe not worth the time and effort.

Remove the low 2nd trunk for a broom like style using the 3 or 4 larger trunks up higher. How that goes will depend on the angles of each of those main stems and where they have main side branches which is not clear in the photo among the tangle of shoots up there.

Informal upright possible using left side branch as 1st branch and one of the 2 larger upright branches as continuation of the trunk.

Any label with a variety name on this one? The leaves appear to be small and some old leaves still hanging on at this time of year gives me the impression of what I know as 'Catlin'. Unfortunately that one is slower and more difficult to ramify than most other types in my experience.

I’ll definitely upload some more photos post-work. Unfortunately, due to this arriving in mail just the other day, I’m a bit worried to do too much to get into the roots. I took maybe the top half inch of soil off to see if the roots looked decent and that was about it.

No trimming, just a quick water and sitting in a well lit shaded area.

BUT, to get to your questions:

• Trunk is roughly just under an inch in diameter
• No label that gave the species, just “ELM”

Thanks for the knowledgeable suggestions as well. I’ve been keeping it on my lazy-Susan all day just staring at different angles. Giving me lots to think on!

 

[Paradox]

Nice little tree.
Lots to work with there

 

[another_alexander]

I’ll definitely upload some more photos post-work. Unfortunately, due to this arriving in mail just the other day, I’m a bit worried to do too much to get into the roots. I took maybe the top half inch of soil off to see if the roots looked decent and that was about it.

No trimming, just a quick water and sitting in a well lit shaded area.

BUT, to get to your questions:

• Trunk is roughly just under an inch in diameter
• No label that gave the species, just “ELM”

Thanks for the knowledgeable suggestions as well. I’ve been keeping it on my lazy-Susan all day just staring at different angles. Giving me lots to think on!

Unfortunately upon my return from work, dogs took out the stand this one was on. A couple roots were damaged, some of the dead branches, no other damage I can tell so far.

Since this happened, I placed it into this pot, placed with some organic soil as the base, a layer of sphagnum moss, then topped with some pumice and lava rock. Placed it under a grow light, but not sure if that’s the correct step.

I have more soil on the way that will be a bit more appropriate but now I’m just hoping this tree survives

 

[brentwood]

Unfortunately upon my return from work, dogs took out the stand this one was on. A couple roots were damaged, some of the dead branches, no other damage I can tell so far.

Since this happened, I placed it into this pot, placed with some organic soil as the base, a layer of sphagnum moss, then topped with some pumice and lava rock. Placed it under a grow light, but not sure if that’s the correct step.

I have more soil on the way that will be a bit more appropriate but now I’m just hoping this tree survives

They're a very tough tree, it's just going to add character - I've had similar accidents, but here it's usually raccoons, squirrels. if it's gotta happen, a Chinese elm is the tree you want to have recovering.

Good luck with it!
B

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Good tree to start With!

Rather see it in another pot to start with though. Perhaps round and a1/2” larger all around to help the tree develop.

Once this tree gets healthy and the leaves harden off one might think about doing a couple things.

Go through the superstructure and ensure each branch for has only two sub branches. Start for the trunk and work out word from each secondary. Always choose a branch that is smaller then the one closer to the trunk.

Go back through the superstructure and look for redundant branches. Try to leave branches with smaller diameters as you progress to the apex.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

 

[Shibui]

As I suspected there was a lot more trunk hidden under the soil. That completely changes the possible styles.
That second trunk is now part way up the trunk so not really a great place for a traditional twin trunk to start however, given this is an elm and if you are willing to be unconventional it could still be part of the tree. Will still need to address the straight and no taper issues, even as a large, low branch though.

A couple roots were damaged, some of the dead branches, no other damage I can tell so far.

As mentioned, this is a Chinese elm so very resilient. It is also coming up toward the end of your winter so an appropriate time to remove roots and repot. It also appears the tree is just starting to grow for the coming season which is another sign of a good time to work on roots, though it appears that Chinese elm are not as fussy about timing as some other species can be. The recent delivery and change of location should not affect what you can do to this tree. I would certainly take the opportunity to do some real root work to set the tree up for better future nebari but I understand that some with less experience will be daunted by that and would prefer to hasten a bit more slowly.

Go through the superstructure and ensure each branch for has only two sub branches. Start for the trunk and work out word from each secondary. Always choose a branch that is smaller then the one closer to the trunk.

Go back through the superstructure and look for redundant branches. Try to leave branches with smaller diameters as you progress to the apex.

These are 2 key methods to achieving better flow and ramification. Follow these wherever possible but always work within what you have. Sometimes it is necessary to leave a less perfect part if it achieves an overall better look. Hope that makes sense?

 

[another_alexander]

Good tree to start With!

Rather see it in another pot to start with though. Perhaps round and a1/2” larger all around to help the tree develop.

Once this tree gets healthy and the leaves harden off one might think about doing a couple things.

Go through the superstructure and ensure each branch for has only two sub branches. Start for the trunk and work out word from each secondary. Always choose a branch that is smaller then the one closer to the trunk.

Go back through the superstructure and look for redundant branches. Try to leave branches with smaller diameters as you progress to the apex.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

Much appreciated! I think I have a couple trainer pots around that I’ll try and get it into. Just upon seeing it on the ground yesterday I threw it into the closest pot on hand! But, I’ll definitely switch it up to allow some proper root growth.

I’ve been looking at the branches since I’ve received it just to follow them and see what might be possible.

Again, much appreciated!
Bard

 

[another_alexander]

As I suspected there was a lot more trunk hidden under the soil. That completely changes the possible styles.
That second trunk is now part way up the trunk so not really a great place for a traditional twin trunk to start however, given this is an elm and if you are willing to be unconventional it could still be part of the tree. Will still need to address the straight and no taper issues, even as a large, low branch though.


As mentioned, this is a Chinese elm so very resilient. It is also coming up toward the end of your winter so an appropriate time to remove roots and repot. It also appears the tree is just starting to grow for the coming season which is another sign of a good time to work on roots, though it appears that Chinese elm are not as fussy about timing as some other species can be. The recent delivery and change of location should not affect what you can do to this tree. I would certainly take the opportunity to do some real root work to set the tree up for better future nebari but I understand that some with less experience will be daunted by that and would prefer to hasten a bit more slowly.


These are 2 key methods to achieving better flow and ramification. Follow these wherever possible but always work within what you have. Sometimes it is necessary to leave a less perfect part if it achieves an overall better look. Hope that makes sense?

I would much rather set this one up for the long term, so if I get to be a bit risky and gain that experience teasing out the roots, so be it!

The lack of taper has had me a bit frustrated but also thinking how to solve it most effectively. First thoughts, allowing nebari to dictate what happens above.

 

[another_alexander]

Unfortunately upon my return from work, dogs took out the stand this one was on. A couple roots were damaged, some of the dead branches, no other damage I can tell so far.

Since this happened, I placed it into this pot, placed with some organic soil as the base, a layer of sphagnum moss, then topped with some pumice and lava rock. Placed it under a grow light, but not sure if that’s the correct step.

I have more soil on the way that will be a bit more appropriate but now I’m just hoping this tree survives

Gave a quick spin in the current pot (will be changing the pot container to allow better root development).

 

[snowman04]

Good tree to start With!

Rather see it in another pot to start with though. Perhaps round and a1/2” larger all around to help the tree develop.

Once this tree gets healthy and the leaves harden off one might think about doing a couple things.

Go through the superstructure and ensure each branch for has only two sub branches. Start for the trunk and work out word from each secondary. Always choose a branch that is smaller then the one closer to the trunk.

Go back through the superstructure and look for redundant branches. Try to leave branches with smaller diameters as you progress to the apex.

Good Luck!
DSD sends

I second this opinion... The tree needs sorting out up top.

 

[another_alexander]

Reset into a cut down basket, to get those roots growin’! While doing so, tried to cut and set to give a bit more movement but still going to be sorting out the branches and looking for proper taper.

Continued input is always welcome!

Best,
Bard