Finished bonsai - Nothing to do?

[Adair M]

It often said on this forum that "I would never want a finished bonsai. There's nothing to do. I want it to be MY work".

How about this tree:



Is it finished? Nothing to do? No chance to put your mark on it?

Well, then, please watch this video of Bjorn restyling it:

It took him 4 days of intense work.

And I would say, it very much reflects Bjorn's style!

I copied these pictures and video from Bjorn's blog. He posts excellent information there.

 

[aml1014]

Instead of the word "finished" we all should start using refined. Since working with my teacher Ive learned there is no means to an end. I've restyled some of her trees just as Bjorn did, obviously not as well done but still. It's not easy to keep them under control, we need to remember, these want to be big trees and they're going to try to be if we let them. Refined bonsai take a lot of maintaining, end of story. All bonsai in any phase takes a lot of work. We all need to realize that. I get what Adair is trying to get through.

Aaron

 

[abqjoe]

IDK, for me personally, I'm just starting out in this little world of Bonsai at 40 years old lol. That being said, I want most of my trees to either be finished or at the very least have some decent age and training on them so that care and upkeep take up most of my time. I want to enjoy them in their more complete phases of beauty because I know that I most likely don't have enough time in my life left to create anything from seed and be able to raise it to the point of a ripe old age.

 

[vaibatron]

Yea, Bjorn is the fucking man! Not only is he incredibly meticulous, but his style and asthetic is top notch.

I can't wait for the opportunity to watch him work.

 

[johng]

Everyone knows that the only finished tree is a dead one... Perhaps it was Vance that use to have this as his signature line...and they are zero work at that stage!

I'm to the point that I'm really no longer interested in maintaining a bunch of very refined trees....ill always want a few but they truly are increasingly more work and effort with only minimal change to keep a person's interest. Personally, I much prefer the creation and development process...

Look for some of my more refined pieces to be for sale soon!

 

[sorce]

No chance

There are maybe a few of us who could afford it.

And about the same amount with Bjorn credentials.

So there you have it..

No chance!

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

Everyone knows that the only finished tree is a dead one... Perhaps it was Vance that use to have this as his signature line...and they are zero work at that stage!

I'm to the point that I'm really no longer interested in maintaining a bunch of very refined trees....ill always want a few but they truly are increasingly more work and effort with only minimal change to keep a person's interest. Personally, I much prefer the creation and development process...

Look for some of my more refined pieces to be for sale soon!

You bet I will be!

I dont have any highly refined/finished trees so I wouldnt know what I prefer. But I really want some.

 

[aml1014]

You bet I will be!

I dont have any highly refined/finished trees so I wouldnt know what I prefer. But I really want some.

I'll be all over one of @johng 's trees if I see one. I'd also like a refined tree in my collection.

Aaron

 

[Adair M]

Everyone knows that the only finished tree is a dead one... Perhaps it was Vance that use to have this as his signature line...and they are zero work at that stage!

I'm to the point that I'm really no longer interested in maintaining a bunch of very refined trees....ill always want a few but they truly are increasingly more work and effort with only minimal change to keep a person's interest. Personally, I much prefer the creation and development process...

Look for some of my more refined pieces to be for sale soon!

John, I'm sure you'll be keeping some for the shows!

But, what you're saying is consistent with I posted in the "Phases of Bonsai" thread. Some people prefer some phases more than others. Some like all of them.

That's what makes bonsai such a complex hobby. The Phases and the skills associated with each.

There's a niche for everyone!

 

[Anthony]

Hmm, even to keep a tree at a -refined - stage is not supposed to be good for long term health.

I guess you create the design, see if you can hit it, and when you get there, enjoy and prepare to start over.
That is what makes Bonsai so enjoyable.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[ConorDash]

It often said on this forum that "I would never want a finished bonsai. There's nothing to do. I want it to be MY work".

How about this tree:

View attachment 111561

Is it finished? Nothing to do? No chance to put your mark on it?

Well, then, please watch this video of Bjorn restyling it:

It took him 4 days of intense work.

And I would say, it very much reflects Bjorn's style!

I copied these pictures and video from Bjorn's blog. He posts excellent information there.

That is one God damn beautiful bonsai tree. First tree I've ever used the word beautiful on and probably the only one for a while more.

 

[MichaelS]

"Adair M,

Well, then, please watch this video of Bjorn restyling it:

Not ''restyled'' Adair, just groomed.

 

[Adair M]

Not ''restyled'' Adair, just groomed.

Did you watch the video?

Bjorn wired every branch. He repositioned every one. To me, that's restyling.

Did he change it from an upright tree to a cascade? Or split the trunk? No.

What Bjorn did is a "restyle".

Had another artist done the work, it would look different. I'm not saying it would look better or worse, but it would not look like Bjorn's styling.

 

[MichaelS]

Adair M,

Did you watch the video?

Yes

What Bjorn did is a "restyle".

No. Nowhere near it. But I won't get too hung up on a word - even if it's the wrong one

Had another artist done the work, it would look different.

Firstly, this aspect of bonsai is not art. It's maintenance. (Very high quality work but maintenance nonetheless). Secondly, it may or may not look different if done by someone else. Quite likely, exactly the same as there would most probably be no attempt at restyling.
Eg, I can see by the way you work on your trees, you would probably come up with a very similar result.

 

[Adair M]

Yes



No. Nowhere near it. But I won't get too hung up on a word - even if it's the wrong one



Firstly, this aspect of bonsai is not art. It's maintenance. (Very high quality work but maintenance nonetheless). Secondly, it may or may not look different if done by someone else. Quite likely, exactly the same as there would most probably be no attempt at restyling.
Eg, I can see by the way you work on your trees, you would probably come up with a very similar result.

Thanks for the complement! I am no where close to being as good as Bjorn.

 

[Anthony]

In the days of Enlightenment - A historical tale [ from K ]

First time - Ping Woo discovers as beautiful tree in nature, he takes it home.
He admires it, he is a Scholar, then his scholar friends admire it.

The tree has no practical use, it is not edible, does not fruit / lumber, produce medicine [ though the Indian version does - Ayer vedic medicine ]
it is just beautiful.

Woo learns to keep it healthy and building on the shape that first caught his eye.

With time Woo, links the tree to his thoughts on his Scholar stone and vice versa.

He notes ADAPTABILITY , which links to CREATIVITY and then writes POETRY, INK PAINTS and CONTEMPLATES LIFE.

Then the Rich and Poor catch on, but one wants to show off, the other to deny his state of life.

In time Woo is forgotten, but not his work, or his tree/s.

We shift to present time - corruption of the idea has occurred. Tree / s generate business, and pomp - very sad.

The adaptability - the creativity is forgotten,
Maintaining seeks to become Creativity and the Scholar is forgotten.
Bonsai / Tree Penjing is alas no more, just a commercial practice.
We weep.
We weep.

I looked to the East
Lo darkness only
The yellow Poui has failed to bloom,


Woo Ping and Wen Chang Wang leave the Eastern Sky .............................................................................

 

[Adair M]

Hmm, even to keep a tree at a -refined - stage is not supposed to be good for long term health.

I guess you create the design, see if you can hit it, and when you get there, enjoy and prepare to start over.
That is what makes Bonsai so enjoyable.
Good Day
Anthony

To a certain extent that's true, Anthony.

But isn't that pretty much true of all living creatures?

Think of the Athletes going to the Olympics soon. When they get there, they want to be at the peak of training. Can they sustain that level of fitness all the time? No. There's times they work on strength, other times speed. Other times stamina. They prepare themselves so that everything peaks just in time for the Olympics.

Oh, the other times of the year(s), they're not couch potatoes, but they won't be at their absolute best.

Same with trees. We develop ramification, excess ramification in fact, because it looks good at the show. Right after the show, it gets cut back.

So it can grow out again and look good at a future show! If we didn't do this, the tree would just get bigger, and bigger, the interior branches would get shaded out and die.

Let's face it, with all the talk about "Naturslism" in bonsai, what we're doing is not natural to the tree! It wants to grow tall! We're forcing it to stay small, against its inherent genetics. So, we have to find that happy medium. Where the tree can be allowed to do what it must do to stay alive and be healthy, and still endure the constraints we impose upon it.

And here's food for thought:

Wing Poo? Destroyed the environment.

 

[vaibatron]

Firstly, this aspect of bonsai is not art. It's maintenance. (Very high quality work but maintenance nonetheless). Secondly, it may or may not look different if done by someone else. Quite likely, exactly the same as there would most probably be no attempt at restyling.
Eg, I can see by the way you work on your trees, you would probably come up with a very similar result.

I'm not entirely sure you are aware of the "eye" this so-called "maintenance" requires.

Yes, in styling a tree like so, there are horticultural needs that take precedent. However, a total wiring, thinning, and branch/pad placement is essentially what the ART of bonsai is.

 

[aml1014]

I'm not entirely sure you are aware of the "eye" this so-called "maintenance" requires.

Yes, in styling a tree like so, there are horticultural needs that take precedent. However, a total wiring, thinning, and branch/pad placement is essentially what the ART of bonsai is.

Correct, up until that point it's only development. The art of bonsai is the maintenance and small trees I'm shallow pots, NOT ground growing for trunk development, and so on. Those are just phases.

Aaron

 

[Anthony]

Ha ha ha Sifu,

well put! But isn"t that Woo Ping and not - Wing Poo [ or dirty wing ] ha ha ha

Interesting - Athletes - Interesting before Design is Health and after Design is Health.

Here's food for thought -------- there are many exceptional trees in China that are never put in show.
Much as the ones here are in the backyard.

It's a hobby and enjoyable.

My question to you would be ---------- How many of those exceptional trees in his garden, are actually owned by Masahiko K.

But for our side, it is just a hobby that teaches adaptability leading to Creativity.
Good Day
Anthony